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It seems to me that aircraft with a lot of automation should have a single big red button to turn it all off. In most situations, of course, the automation is

by Zak 8y ago

It seems to me that aircraft with a lot of automation should have a single big red button to turn it all off. In most situations, of course, the automation is good, preventing pilot errors like stalling or exceeding safe control inputs, but these are fundamentals that every pilot learns in the first few hours of flight training. Unlike some fighters that are inherently unstable, a 737 can be flown safely without the computer overriding the pilot's control inputs so long as the pilot flies reasonably. I've had a similar experience in a car. Antilock brakes are designed to override an erroneous control input: braking too hard for the available traction. In the event of a wheel speed sensor malfunction, they can override a reasonable control input: moderate braking well within the limits of the available traction. This is terrifying, and there's no way to override it in the moment. It can, however be overridden in most cars by pulling out the fuse for the ABS.

glbrew 8y ago
I have an ABS button, I believe.
- jki275 8y ago
  Maybe a skid control button? Those are common, but I've never seen a car that has a button to disable ABS.
  - justtopost 8y ago
    I have a sports car with both. Many racers add buttons by adding switches and relays to the ABS circuit, but many modern cars go into Safe-mode when you do such hackery. My scion helpfully disabled power steering when abs went out for some godforsaken reason. For the average driver, removing it would be a manuver in futility and libablity for the manufacturer.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Upto about 5 or so years ago I can't think of an ABS equipped car I've driven without an ABS button. I'm less sure about more recent models as there's so many combinations of traction control, ABS and other assorted gimmicks. With recent winters free of ice I've not even bothered to look. Maybe it was a regulation thing here in the UK. Maybe it still is. :)
mnw21cam 8y ago
There are risks associated with an aircraft having different operation "modes" as well. For example, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 the aircraft detected that some of its sensors were no longer working, and switched into a more manual mode of operation, with appropriate warnings to the pilots. The pilots couldn't get their heads around this, and stalled the plane into the sea.
- Zak 8y ago
  No doubt, though I think a compounding factor here is the automatic switching between modes. The pilots didn't seem to understand what the plane was doing and why. A reasonable response in that situation might be to hit the big red button, removing any question about the behavior of the flight controls. It may not have been enough in this scenario, as the pilots didn't seem to be paying appropriate attention to the angle of attack indicator, which was apparently functioning and clearly indicating a stall, but it may have put them in the right frame of mind to correct the problem.
mdekkers 8y ago
This PDF https://www.he-alert.org/filemanager/root/site_assets/standalone_articles_not_linked_to_a_bulletin/HE00155.pdf https://www.he-alert.org/filemanager/root/site_assets/standa... should give you pause. Best quote of the paper is the pilot asking a co-pilot "What's it doing now?"
7952 8y ago
Although pilots then have to deal with exactly the same failures as the automation, and their success rate in those situations is hit and miss at best. It is possible that suitably advanced automation would perform better than a pilot at dealing with complex failures, but that just doesn't exist yet. The design just reverts to pilot control when it hits unusual edge cases. Also, perhaps we need addittional sensor types that do not rely on direct air flow to work.
mrguyorama 8y ago
>It seems to me that aircraft with a lot of automation should have a single big red button to turn it all off 737s have a big lever that can be smacked to shut off all autopilot function and return to a completely human controlled system. Most of the time even just using the Yoke to fight the autopilot will turn it off as well, after a few seconds Also, in most automotive instruction manuals I've read, they specifically call out that you can simply press very hard on the brake pedal to overcome the forces produced by the ABS pump and lock up the brakes if need be

by Zak 8y ago

glbrew 8y ago

I have an ABS button, I believe.

jki275 8y ago
Maybe a skid control button? Those are common, but I've never seen a car that has a button to disable ABS.
- justtopost 8y ago
  I have a sports car with both. Many racers add buttons by adding switches and relays to the ABS circuit, but many modern cars go into Safe-mode when you do such hackery. My scion helpfully disabled power steering when abs went out for some godforsaken reason. For the average driver, removing it would be a manuver in futility and libablity for the manufacturer.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Upto about 5 or so years ago I can't think of an ABS equipped car I've driven without an ABS button. I'm less sure about more recent models as there's so many combinations of traction control, ABS and other assorted gimmicks. With recent winters free of ice I've not even bothered to look. Maybe it was a regulation thing here in the UK. Maybe it still is. :)

mnw21cam 8y ago

There are risks associated with an aircraft having different operation "modes" as well. For example, in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447 the aircraft detected that some of its sensors were no longer working, and switched into a more manual mode of operation, with appropriate warnings to the pilots. The pilots couldn't get their heads around this, and stalled the plane into the sea.

Zak 8y ago
No doubt, though I think a compounding factor here is the automatic switching between modes. The pilots didn't seem to understand what the plane was doing and why. A reasonable response in that situation might be to hit the big red button, removing any question about the behavior of the flight controls. It may not have been enough in this scenario, as the pilots didn't seem to be paying appropriate attention to the angle of attack indicator, which was apparently functioning and clearly indicating a stall, but it may have put them in the right frame of mind to correct the problem.

mdekkers 8y ago

This PDF https://www.he-alert.org/filemanager/root/site_assets/standalone_articles_not_linked_to_a_bulletin/HE00155.pdf https://www.he-alert.org/filemanager/root/site_assets/standa... should give you pause. Best quote of the paper is the pilot asking a co-pilot "What's it doing now?"

7952 8y ago

Although pilots then have to deal with exactly the same failures as the automation, and their success rate in those situations is hit and miss at best. It is possible that suitably advanced automation would perform better than a pilot at dealing with complex failures, but that just doesn't exist yet. The design just reverts to pilot control when it hits unusual edge cases. Also, perhaps we need addittional sensor types that do not rely on direct air flow to work.

mrguyorama 8y ago

>It seems to me that aircraft with a lot of automation should have a single big red button to turn it all off 737s have a big lever that can be smacked to shut off all autopilot function and return to a completely human controlled system. Most of the time even just using the Yoke to fight the autopilot will turn it off as well, after a few seconds Also, in most automotive instruction manuals I've read, they specifically call out that you can simply press very hard on the brake pedal to overcome the forces produced by the ABS pump and lock up the brakes if need be