5 ms·

The way to have legacy nuclear power plants in 2050 is to build them in 2020.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Right. Find someone willing to give you the $1-4 billion dollars to do it (per generation facility). No one will because you can't prove it'll be financially viable for the next 20-50 years. Duke Energy collected almost $368 million from ratepayers in South Carolina [1] to pay for a nuclear power plant, and then gave up on it, with no recourse for ratepayers. It spent another $1 billion on the failed construction of a nuclear plant in Florida (north of Tampa). If I'm a ratepayer, I'm going to burn you at the stake (metaphorically) if you try to force me to pay for another boondoggle. If you want to save the planet, buy every solar panel you can get your hands on and install it as soon as you can, especially if you live near a coal plant; it'll drive the plant into insolvency, no nuclear power required. [1] https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/trigaux-abandoning-another-nuclear-project-duke-energy-mimics-its-failed/2335162 https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/trigaux-abando...
- sjwright 8y ago
  I have no opinion about any of that. That's a discussion you should probably have with Nathan Myhrvold, not me.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- nukemandan 8y ago
  That is why financing of reactors is outrageous - more than 50% of the TOTAL cost of some reactors! But there is a solution: SMRs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Point me to where I can buy one.
    - nukemandan 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_small_modular_reactor_designs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_small_modular_reactor_... More coming soon
    - nukemandan 8y ago
      also checkout: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608271/small-reactors-could-kick-start-the-stalled-nuclear-sector/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608271/small-reactors-cou...
- pyrale 8y ago
  The coal plant will just bill you double thf amojnt when there is no wind/sun. Examples of renewable in Spain and Germany have shown that you still need an alternative source of energy - you just reduce its usage. Nuclear, on the other hand, provide the opportunity to eliminate coal/gas.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    > The coal plant will just bill you double thf amojnt when there is no wind/sun. Which prompts users to install battery storage (which, in the US, is eligible for a 30% federal tax credit, not to mention state and local incentives in some cases). If the coal plant can bill you double, so can the nuclear power plant. You can't charge me for the sun on my roof, nor the energy I store in my Powerwall.
    - pyrale 8y ago
      The nuke plant can charge you double... except if you can import power. At that point, the problem nuclear runs into is that coal/gas is more adapted to fluctuating demand. So nuclear has to face excess production from wind/solar exported by e.g. Germany at times, and can't make up for it when wind/sun is offline, because the germans then adapt with gas. That is kind of a bad situation if you optimize for co2. Also power walls are not a scalable solution. The raw ressource just isn't there for it to happen.

Right. Find someone willing to give you the $1-4 billion dollars to do it (per generation facility). No one will because you can't prove it'll be financially viable for the next 20-50 years. Duke Energy collected almost $368 million from ratepayers in South Carolina [1] to pay for a nuclear power plant, and then gave up on it, with no recourse for ratepayers. It spent another $1 billion on the failed construction of a nuclear plant in Florida (north of Tampa). If I'm a ratepayer, I'm going to burn you at the stake (metaphorically) if you try to force me to pay for another boondoggle. If you want to save the planet, buy every solar panel you can get your hands on and install it as soon as you can, especially if you live near a coal plant; it'll drive the plant into insolvency, no nuclear power required. [1] https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/trigaux-abandoning-another-nuclear-project-duke-energy-mimics-its-failed/2335162 https://www.tampabay.com/news/business/energy/trigaux-abando...

sjwright 8y ago
I have no opinion about any of that. That's a discussion you should probably have with Nathan Myhrvold, not me.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
nukemandan 8y ago
That is why financing of reactors is outrageous - more than 50% of the TOTAL cost of some reactors! But there is a solution: SMRs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_modular_reactor
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Point me to where I can buy one.
  - nukemandan 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_small_modular_reactor_designs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_small_modular_reactor_... More coming soon
  - nukemandan 8y ago
    also checkout: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608271/small-reactors-could-kick-start-the-stalled-nuclear-sector/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608271/small-reactors-cou...
pyrale 8y ago
The coal plant will just bill you double thf amojnt when there is no wind/sun. Examples of renewable in Spain and Germany have shown that you still need an alternative source of energy - you just reduce its usage. Nuclear, on the other hand, provide the opportunity to eliminate coal/gas.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  > The coal plant will just bill you double thf amojnt when there is no wind/sun. Which prompts users to install battery storage (which, in the US, is eligible for a 30% federal tax credit, not to mention state and local incentives in some cases). If the coal plant can bill you double, so can the nuclear power plant. You can't charge me for the sun on my roof, nor the energy I store in my Powerwall.
  - pyrale 8y ago
    The nuke plant can charge you double... except if you can import power. At that point, the problem nuclear runs into is that coal/gas is more adapted to fluctuating demand. So nuclear has to face excess production from wind/solar exported by e.g. Germany at times, and can't make up for it when wind/sun is offline, because the germans then adapt with gas. That is kind of a bad situation if you optimize for co2. Also power walls are not a scalable solution. The raw ressource just isn't there for it to happen.