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As someone who has chronic pain and tried everything under the sun, but only found relief in opioids, it sucks to see this attack on pain doctors by people who

As someone who has chronic pain and tried everything under the sun, but only found relief in opioids, it sucks to see this attack on pain doctors by people who largely aren't affected by it. I lost access to my medication because I moved to a new state and no doctors want to take on a new patient for fear of the DEA. Pain patients are super risky, and every script they write is scrutinized by the government. My quality of life has dropped a lot. Thank God I found Kratom (it really works for moderate pain), but rumor is that will be banned soon too in the US (where we love our drug wars). Also kratom doesn't help much during flare-ups. I'm now bed-ridden during those periods whereas before at least I could work. Please consider the unintended consequences of a well-meaning war on opioids. They are not evil. In fact for many of us they are the only thing that allows us to live semi-normal lives.

CelestialTeapot 8y ago
I don't know your situation, but can empathize. In my state, you have to see a pain specialist and jump through the hoops on a regular basis. For me, opioids dulled the pain at night enough to sleep, but, they won't regularly prescribe it for my condition because, "it doesn't work." I eventually found a doctor that prescribed low-dose naltrexone[1] (not a controlled substance) in 2mg/night doses and the pain has dropped from a nightly 8-9.9 to about a 6 or 7 except when there's a flare-up, and the next day I'm not in as much pain until later in the day. Still sucks, but I can eventually get to sleep. I have no idea how long it will work (I've found many pain meds eventually stop working for me) but for now, one day at a time... 1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/
14 8y ago
It is a shame that doctors have now started leaving patients suffer out of fear of addiction. Surely there has to be a middle ground? I feel there is a risk they go too far and by not addressing pain in people they put those people at higher risk of doing desperate things like take other drugs available on the black market. I hate the feeling you get off opiods. But when I threw my back out over the counter medications did not even come close to touching the pain. It truly was crippling. Doctors would not give me anything but a family member had a handful of I forget what now but it was a prescription opiod of some type from a past surgery and it was the only thing that would even take a dent out of the pain. When my back came back I immediately stopped taking anything for it. But I truly do fear it happening again. I know I won't be able to access stronger pain medications if I have it happen again.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
freedomben 8y ago
I'm sorry to hear this. I have a friend that works in a hospital ER and she says they rarely allow opioids even for broken bones and for post-op recovery these days, unless it's something like a back or neck surgery. Even then, many of the ER docs have started only prescribing "Extra Strength Tylenol" or NSAIDs (which are notoriously damaging to your system, as is Acetaminophen (Tylenol)). It's a sad state we find ourselves in these days.
JankInTheBank 8y ago
Lol, junky
tombert 8y ago
It's possible that your pain doctor was great, but that doesn't subtract from the fact that there are doctors who act like glorified drug-dealers who prescribe oxy if you mention you've ever had a headache, and the only way that I can see to fix this is to start monitoring this more thoroughly. I feel bad for people in your situation, but I feel like increased scrutiny is sort of a necessary evil. I got a vasectomy a couple years back, and despite me feeling nothing but a bit of soreness for two days, my doctor wrote my a prescription for 45 days of codeine. I didn't take them out of fear of it becoming a problem, but someone less informed could seriously be hurt by that.
- BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
  To me this is essentially your argument: I have to suffer with excruciating pain because somebody else might make a bad decision or lack self-control, and my pain is worth it just in case it helps somebody else (evidence is lacking there anyway. Prescriptions have dropped precipitously, but opioid deaths are still rising). Would it change your viewpoint at all to know that a lot of chronic pain patients are now committing suicide rather than face a life where they are bed-ridden and dependent on a loved one for care? And all they need is a medication and they could have some quality of life? What about the people who have been responsible with their prescriptions but are now forced to buy potentially deadly black-market opioids like heroin and fentanyl from a dealer that is surely less concerned about their health and safety than their doctor, if they want relief? That is extremely non-compassionate. I would never wish that on you or anyone else. I don't think that is what you are trying to say, but I struggle to see how your logic doesn't ultimately reduce to that. Edit (after thinking more): your example of the codeine is definitely a good example of over-subscribing, but my dad had a vasectomy that ended up being a horrible recovery. Luckily he was able to sit on the couch with a bag of ice under his balls and watch football for a week, but the man was in some serious discomfort. I tend to think education is the answer. Teach people about the risks, and then give them freedom to decide. If we boil society and our laws down to never requiring or allowing people to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions, then we end up in a bad place IMHO.
  - tombert 8y ago
woolvalley 8y ago
Oh man, what kind of conditions causes this kind of pain?
- BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
  There are surprisingly quite a few. In my case I have issues with discs in my spine and neck. Sometimes it can be an autoimmune condition like multiple sclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis. Sometimes it can be downright mysterious such as many cases of fibromyalgia.
  - wavegeek 8y ago
    Mild sciatica is kind of funny but if you get a badly pinched nerve it is excruciating. Opiates turned off the pain for 2 hours out of three, and for a third hour I suffered. I did not get a full night's sleep for 6 weeks. Severe pain makes your life a living hell and is responsible for a lot of suicides. I don't take pain killers now because my back got better, but I have other needs for controversial medications. It is a life of constant anxiety as the government keeps changing the rules. You never know from one appointment to the next whether the system will throw you under the bus again.
dumbfoundded 8y ago
Have you tried CBD? I run a CBD company and I'd be happy to send you some products with no strings attached.
- casefields 8y ago
  I’ve been on a Kratom regimen as well and tried CBD a few times but it didn’t seem to relieve the pain for me. What do you think of this article that came out the other day: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/1/18024806/cbd-oil-vape-hemp https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/1/18024806/cbd-oil-vap...
  - dumbfoundded 8y ago
    As a consumer of CBD myself, I don't think it's a scam. I also don't believe it's a miracle drug that solves every problem. What I do think is that it has a remarkable safety profile. If you experience chronic pain, you should probably try CBD before opioids. The side-effects of CBD are pretty limited (be careful though as all interactions are unknown) compared to other pharmaceuticals used to treat the same symptoms. In other words, I don't think CBD is remarkable because of its effects. Morphine is a way better pain killer. I think CBD is special because you can take it for a long time without the same risks. If you send me an email at evan@tryplainjane.com . I'd be happy to send you some samples as well.
- BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
  That is a very kind offer, thank you! I tried quite a few different strains of Cannabis but wasn't able to find anything that worked for me. Some high CBD strains did help a bit, but it was a mild help. It also wore off within an hour or two so I had to redose constantly, which wasn't feasible at work. Would oil be much different than a high CBD flower?
  - dumbfoundded 8y ago
    Oral consumption generally provides longer lasting effects but have a smaller impact. Send me an email to evan@tryplainjane.com and I'll send you a couple different things. I'd love to see if any of them work for you. I can't promise they will but if they do, it's a lot safer than some of the alternatives.
agumonkey 8y ago
second time I hear about kratom this month, do you know studies, or scientific review of it ?
pokemongoaway 8y ago
Reads exactly like a pharmaceutical advert. I'm not accusing you of being a shill, but I don't think you can argue for opioids and not opium and the other variants. For one source of very potential and legal synthetic opium to be good and fair - but then the rest be evil and worthy of jail time is as hypocritical as it gets. It is just a monopoly on drugs. No one is claiming that opioids don't take away the pain - in fact quite the contrary. If you think you don't have pain in your life, then try opioids! I guarantee you'll experience much less pain than that, even!

CelestialTeapot 8y ago

I don't know your situation, but can empathize. In my state, you have to see a pain specialist and jump through the hoops on a regular basis. For me, opioids dulled the pain at night enough to sleep, but, they won't regularly prescribe it for my condition because, "it doesn't work." I eventually found a doctor that prescribed low-dose naltrexone[1] (not a controlled substance) in 2mg/night doses and the pain has dropped from a nightly 8-9.9 to about a 6 or 7 except when there's a flare-up, and the next day I'm not in as much pain until later in the day. Still sucks, but I can eventually get to sleep. I have no idea how long it will work (I've found many pain meds eventually stop working for me) but for now, one day at a time... 1 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3962576/

14 8y ago

It is a shame that doctors have now started leaving patients suffer out of fear of addiction. Surely there has to be a middle ground? I feel there is a risk they go too far and by not addressing pain in people they put those people at higher risk of doing desperate things like take other drugs available on the black market. I hate the feeling you get off opiods. But when I threw my back out over the counter medications did not even come close to touching the pain. It truly was crippling. Doctors would not give me anything but a family member had a handful of I forget what now but it was a prescription opiod of some type from a past surgery and it was the only thing that would even take a dent out of the pain. When my back came back I immediately stopped taking anything for it. But I truly do fear it happening again. I know I won't be able to access stronger pain medications if I have it happen again.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

freedomben 8y ago

I'm sorry to hear this. I have a friend that works in a hospital ER and she says they rarely allow opioids even for broken bones and for post-op recovery these days, unless it's something like a back or neck surgery. Even then, many of the ER docs have started only prescribing "Extra Strength Tylenol" or NSAIDs (which are notoriously damaging to your system, as is Acetaminophen (Tylenol)). It's a sad state we find ourselves in these days.

JankInTheBank 8y ago

Lol, junky

tombert 8y ago

It's possible that your pain doctor was great, but that doesn't subtract from the fact that there are doctors who act like glorified drug-dealers who prescribe oxy if you mention you've ever had a headache, and the only way that I can see to fix this is to start monitoring this more thoroughly. I feel bad for people in your situation, but I feel like increased scrutiny is sort of a necessary evil. I got a vasectomy a couple years back, and despite me feeling nothing but a bit of soreness for two days, my doctor wrote my a prescription for 45 days of codeine. I didn't take them out of fear of it becoming a problem, but someone less informed could seriously be hurt by that.

BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
To me this is essentially your argument: I have to suffer with excruciating pain because somebody else might make a bad decision or lack self-control, and my pain is worth it just in case it helps somebody else (evidence is lacking there anyway. Prescriptions have dropped precipitously, but opioid deaths are still rising). Would it change your viewpoint at all to know that a lot of chronic pain patients are now committing suicide rather than face a life where they are bed-ridden and dependent on a loved one for care? And all they need is a medication and they could have some quality of life? What about the people who have been responsible with their prescriptions but are now forced to buy potentially deadly black-market opioids like heroin and fentanyl from a dealer that is surely less concerned about their health and safety than their doctor, if they want relief? That is extremely non-compassionate. I would never wish that on you or anyone else. I don't think that is what you are trying to say, but I struggle to see how your logic doesn't ultimately reduce to that. Edit (after thinking more): your example of the codeine is definitely a good example of over-subscribing, but my dad had a vasectomy that ended up being a horrible recovery. Luckily he was able to sit on the couch with a bag of ice under his balls and watch football for a week, but the man was in some serious discomfort. I tend to think education is the answer. Teach people about the risks, and then give them freedom to decide. If we boil society and our laws down to never requiring or allowing people to take responsibility for their own actions and decisions, then we end up in a bad place IMHO.
- tombert 8y ago

woolvalley 8y ago

Oh man, what kind of conditions causes this kind of pain?

BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
There are surprisingly quite a few. In my case I have issues with discs in my spine and neck. Sometimes it can be an autoimmune condition like multiple sclerosis or rheumatoid arthritis. Sometimes it can be downright mysterious such as many cases of fibromyalgia.
- wavegeek 8y ago
  Mild sciatica is kind of funny but if you get a badly pinched nerve it is excruciating. Opiates turned off the pain for 2 hours out of three, and for a third hour I suffered. I did not get a full night's sleep for 6 weeks. Severe pain makes your life a living hell and is responsible for a lot of suicides. I don't take pain killers now because my back got better, but I have other needs for controversial medications. It is a life of constant anxiety as the government keeps changing the rules. You never know from one appointment to the next whether the system will throw you under the bus again.

dumbfoundded 8y ago

Have you tried CBD? I run a CBD company and I'd be happy to send you some products with no strings attached.

casefields 8y ago
I’ve been on a Kratom regimen as well and tried CBD a few times but it didn’t seem to relieve the pain for me. What do you think of this article that came out the other day: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/1/18024806/cbd-oil-vape-hemp https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/11/1/18024806/cbd-oil-vap...
- dumbfoundded 8y ago
  As a consumer of CBD myself, I don't think it's a scam. I also don't believe it's a miracle drug that solves every problem. What I do think is that it has a remarkable safety profile. If you experience chronic pain, you should probably try CBD before opioids. The side-effects of CBD are pretty limited (be careful though as all interactions are unknown) compared to other pharmaceuticals used to treat the same symptoms. In other words, I don't think CBD is remarkable because of its effects. Morphine is a way better pain killer. I think CBD is special because you can take it for a long time without the same risks. If you send me an email at evan@tryplainjane.com . I'd be happy to send you some samples as well.
BaronVonSteuben 8y ago
That is a very kind offer, thank you! I tried quite a few different strains of Cannabis but wasn't able to find anything that worked for me. Some high CBD strains did help a bit, but it was a mild help. It also wore off within an hour or two so I had to redose constantly, which wasn't feasible at work. Would oil be much different than a high CBD flower?
- dumbfoundded 8y ago
  Oral consumption generally provides longer lasting effects but have a smaller impact. Send me an email to evan@tryplainjane.com and I'll send you a couple different things. I'd love to see if any of them work for you. I can't promise they will but if they do, it's a lot safer than some of the alternatives.

agumonkey 8y ago

second time I hear about kratom this month, do you know studies, or scientific review of it ?

pokemongoaway 8y ago

Reads exactly like a pharmaceutical advert. I'm not accusing you of being a shill, but I don't think you can argue for opioids and not opium and the other variants. For one source of very potential and legal synthetic opium to be good and fair - but then the rest be evil and worthy of jail time is as hypocritical as it gets. It is just a monopoly on drugs. No one is claiming that opioids don't take away the pain - in fact quite the contrary. If you think you don't have pain in your life, then try opioids! I guarantee you'll experience much less pain than that, even!