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Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle

Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.

djrogers 8y ago
Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.
- 3pt14159 8y ago
  Roundabouts and yield signs. For T-intersections no yield along the top for cross intersections that can't be roundabouts for whatever reason make the yield the direction that has a bike lane if possible. The problem with coming to a complete stop on a bike is that for people getting to work it means a much more likely chance that you end up there sweaty; and most work places don't have a shower.
- aqme28 8y ago
  Here's a simple fix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Stop signs become yield signs for cyclists. Red lights become stop signs.
  - rootusrootus 8y ago
    Works for me. The only time I have a problem with a bike running a stop sign is when they do it at speed. Riding up, looking both ways, and safely taking your turn without fully stopping seems totally okay to me. Cool story time: only time I ever got in trouble on a bike was when I (on campus, even) blew through a stop sign at an intersection that was not even publicly accessible. State Police saw me and chased me down and pulled me over on my bike :-). She had a point. I didn't just mosey through that stop sign, I blew it at speed. Dumb kid.
samstave 8y ago
Exactly. People who don't bike don't understand. Imagine having to effectively park you car every single time a stop was legally required. All moving vehicles should be operated safely, but obeying a stop sign, just because its a stop sign isnt always safe, or efficient. @drRogers below me... To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts. There are myriad ways to design infra for non-stoppage cyclists. How about we have entire zones where cars arent even allowed? If this were the case, then you'd have to design around mobility that didnt involve cars.
- komali2 8y ago
  I don't think anybody's saying you can't make a California stop as a bicyclist, when I say "blow through a red" or "blow through a stopsign," I'm talking about the bicyclists I see (every day) that disrupt the actual order of expected operation of the stop sign. I.e., moving out of turn, because they were unwilling to slow down. And I get dinged at because I let cars (who have missed MULTIPLE of "their turns") go. I don't get it.
- ryanmercer 8y ago
  >To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts. Uh. Roundabouts cost orders of magnitude more than stop signs and eat up several times as much space as a standard intersection. https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/case_studies/fhwasa09018/ https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabo... >The average construction cost of roundabouts is estimated at approximately $250,000[2]. Roundabouts discussed in this report ranged in cost from $194,000 to just under $500,000, depending on their size (or "footprint" and right-of-way acquisitions that were needed.) Let's see... 200k$ roundabout or sub 2k$ (probably sub 1k$) for 4 stop signs installed.
  - telchar 8y ago
    That's not a good comparison, you're neglecting the cost of actually building the non-roundabout intersection and just looking at the cost of the signs. Consider the cost to build each from scratch.
sbilstein 8y ago
I’m a cyclist too but I just don’t see how cities could be built in such a way that avoids stop signs unless everything is a roundabout. It’s annoying to stop on a bike; doesn’t mean I am justified in being lazy about it.
- the8472 8y ago
  bikelanes on the level with the sidewalk which also merge into the crosswalks at intersections. For big intersections with traffic lights you can have under/overpasses for pedstrians and bicycles instead, which also allows more aggressive traffic light cycles for the cars.
  - sbilstein 8y ago
    I think putting them on level with sidewalks would be a serious danger for pedestrians, moreso than my risk as a biker. I do wish crosswalks were designed so that cyclists can make left turns on them
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
aqme28 8y ago
I don't think the conversation should be on how difficult it is to stop and start on a bike. The real issue is that bikes aren't any safer treating stop signs as full stops. Visibility and maneuverability on a bike are so high that a complete stop is totally unnecessary for a bike approaching an empty intersection, so long as they at least yield to traffic. Bikes are not cars, and should not be treated as such.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
sgustard 8y ago
I agree it's convenient for the biker, but it's confusing for cars. As a driver making a 4-way stop I see a biker approaching from the side. I know he's planning to roll through the intersection. I can either wait for him (yielding my right of way) or take my turn (forcing him to make an unplanned stop). Meanwhile that indecision further disrupts the flow of traffic.
- imgabe 8y ago
  If it's your turn to go, go. Most likely the cyclist will slow enough for you to get through the intersection without having to make a full stop themselves. They know it's your turn to go and are expecting you to go. It only creates further confusion if you don't follow the rules that everyone knows.
  - thfuran 8y ago
    > It only creates further confusion if you don't follow the rules that everyone knows. Doesn't that seem like an argument for cyclists stopping at stop signs?
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  IMO just take your turn. Unless the biker looks like he's actually going to be in a place where you might hit him, just follow the rules of the road. Let the biker worry about himself.
walshemj 8y ago
Buy a bike with gears then - and stop living out your velodrome fantasies on the road. Gears and proper brakes are good enough for pro road racers. This is the weakest excuse I have heard for bad behaviour.
- tomjakubowski 8y ago
  "proper road racers" don't stop at stop signs. it is also a strange assumption you made that GP doesn't already use a bike with gears.

djrogers 8y ago

Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.

3pt14159 8y ago
Roundabouts and yield signs. For T-intersections no yield along the top for cross intersections that can't be roundabouts for whatever reason make the yield the direction that has a bike lane if possible. The problem with coming to a complete stop on a bike is that for people getting to work it means a much more likely chance that you end up there sweaty; and most work places don't have a shower.
aqme28 8y ago
Here's a simple fix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Stop signs become yield signs for cyclists. Red lights become stop signs.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Works for me. The only time I have a problem with a bike running a stop sign is when they do it at speed. Riding up, looking both ways, and safely taking your turn without fully stopping seems totally okay to me. Cool story time: only time I ever got in trouble on a bike was when I (on campus, even) blew through a stop sign at an intersection that was not even publicly accessible. State Police saw me and chased me down and pulled me over on my bike :-). She had a point. I didn't just mosey through that stop sign, I blew it at speed. Dumb kid.

samstave 8y ago

Exactly. People who don't bike don't understand. Imagine having to effectively park you car every single time a stop was legally required. All moving vehicles should be operated safely, but obeying a stop sign, just because its a stop sign isnt always safe, or efficient. @drRogers below me... To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts. There are myriad ways to design infra for non-stoppage cyclists. How about we have entire zones where cars arent even allowed? If this were the case, then you'd have to design around mobility that didnt involve cars.

komali2 8y ago
I don't think anybody's saying you can't make a California stop as a bicyclist, when I say "blow through a red" or "blow through a stopsign," I'm talking about the bicyclists I see (every day) that disrupt the actual order of expected operation of the stop sign. I.e., moving out of turn, because they were unwilling to slow down. And I get dinged at because I let cars (who have missed MULTIPLE of "their turns") go. I don't get it.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>To anyone bitching about stop signs, they should be bitching about the lack of roundabouts. Uh. Roundabouts cost orders of magnitude more than stop signs and eat up several times as much space as a standard intersection. https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabouts/case_studies/fhwasa09018/ https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/innovative/roundabo... >The average construction cost of roundabouts is estimated at approximately $250,000[2]. Roundabouts discussed in this report ranged in cost from $194,000 to just under $500,000, depending on their size (or "footprint" and right-of-way acquisitions that were needed.) Let's see... 200k$ roundabout or sub 2k$ (probably sub 1k$) for 4 stop signs installed.
- telchar 8y ago
  That's not a good comparison, you're neglecting the cost of actually building the non-roundabout intersection and just looking at the cost of the signs. Consider the cost to build each from scratch.

sbilstein 8y ago

I’m a cyclist too but I just don’t see how cities could be built in such a way that avoids stop signs unless everything is a roundabout. It’s annoying to stop on a bike; doesn’t mean I am justified in being lazy about it.

the8472 8y ago
bikelanes on the level with the sidewalk which also merge into the crosswalks at intersections. For big intersections with traffic lights you can have under/overpasses for pedstrians and bicycles instead, which also allows more aggressive traffic light cycles for the cars.
- sbilstein 8y ago
  I think putting them on level with sidewalks would be a serious danger for pedestrians, moreso than my risk as a biker. I do wish crosswalks were designed so that cyclists can make left turns on them

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

aqme28 8y ago

I don't think the conversation should be on how difficult it is to stop and start on a bike. The real issue is that bikes aren't any safer treating stop signs as full stops. Visibility and maneuverability on a bike are so high that a complete stop is totally unnecessary for a bike approaching an empty intersection, so long as they at least yield to traffic. Bikes are not cars, and should not be treated as such.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

sgustard 8y ago

I agree it's convenient for the biker, but it's confusing for cars. As a driver making a 4-way stop I see a biker approaching from the side. I know he's planning to roll through the intersection. I can either wait for him (yielding my right of way) or take my turn (forcing him to make an unplanned stop). Meanwhile that indecision further disrupts the flow of traffic.

imgabe 8y ago
If it's your turn to go, go. Most likely the cyclist will slow enough for you to get through the intersection without having to make a full stop themselves. They know it's your turn to go and are expecting you to go. It only creates further confusion if you don't follow the rules that everyone knows.
- thfuran 8y ago
  > It only creates further confusion if you don't follow the rules that everyone knows. Doesn't that seem like an argument for cyclists stopping at stop signs?
rootusrootus 8y ago
IMO just take your turn. Unless the biker looks like he's actually going to be in a place where you might hit him, just follow the rules of the road. Let the biker worry about himself.

walshemj 8y ago

Buy a bike with gears then - and stop living out your velodrome fantasies on the road. Gears and proper brakes are good enough for pro road racers. This is the weakest excuse I have heard for bad behaviour.

tomjakubowski 8y ago
"proper road racers" don't stop at stop signs. it is also a strange assumption you made that GP doesn't already use a bike with gears.