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> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cycli

> because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blasting through crosswalks inbetween pedestrians. I mean yea, don't give them bikelanes, this is what happens, they feel scorned or something and start breaking the law.

imgabe 8y ago
I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.
- beatgammit 8y ago
  Hey, if they're honking, they see you, and that's the most important thing. I get far more close calls when I stay to the right than when I take up the whole lane. I fully support these scooters doing the same. People may complain about scooters and bikes in a traffic lane, but if it catches on, we should see less total traffic since they're more compact and they'll probably avoid the more busy, higher speed roads anyway.
- rubicon33 8y ago
  Good luck to you, it's a dangerous game you're playing. It just takes one idiot in a car who doesn't notice you because they're checking their instagram feed, or whatever, for your life to be over. I knew someone growing up who was a very successful banker. He had everything - 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house, etc. Cycled to work every day. One day, someone didn't see him. Doctors managed to save his life but he was unable to use any muscle from his neck down. Had to be on a respirator for the rest of his life. Couldn't talk. Etc. He killed himself by driving his motorized wheelchair into a pool. He left behind a beautiful family and wife. Good luck, be safe. For the record, I fully support bicyclists and wish our cities were designed better to promote their safe use. Unfortunately, they aren't right now, and I hate to see people needlessly punished for choosing to cycle to work.
  - tonyedgecombe 8y ago
    Taking your place in the lane is much safer than riding in the gutter.
  - notyourwork 8y ago
    Does this also mean we don’t fly planes because of terrorism? I sympathize for the family and such a tragic situation but let’s not blame the biker nor declare biking as not the right transportation because drivers aren’t all awesome at driving.
    - rubicon33 8y ago
      You should re-read what I wrote, because I certainly didn't blame the biker. I wished him good luck while acknowledging the fault lies in the "idiot" drivers who are checking their phone rather than paying attention.
  - imgabe 8y ago
    I also knew someone who was very successful and died too young leaving behind 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house etc. (I'm not being flip, this is true). He died in a car accident. I'll take the relatively small risk of being hit while biking in exchange for the 100% chance of the very positive benefits (free exercise, no traffic, free parking). Driving has about the same risk of killing you and 100% chance of making you fat, miserable, and angry.
    - refurb 8y ago
      You are 15 times more likely to be killed on Britain's roads if you ride a bike than if you drive a car.[1] If you look at total deaths they may seem comparable to driving, but way more people drive than cycle. Good on you for dedicating yourself to cycling, but you shouldn't ignore the increase in risk. [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety-laws-new-kim-briggs-death-warning-against-witch-hunt-a7960291.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety...
      - 8y ago
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  I hate to break it to you, but you aren't exactly playing this game from a position of power. If an accident occurs, you will be the one seriously injured or worse.
- notyourwork 8y ago
  100% agree, if you don’t take the lane and ride on side of it cars try to pass far to close for comfort or safety. The middle means I’m claiming this lane please pass on left.
- thrav 8y ago
  Yeah, that works until they pass you anyway and you get hit by their mirror. Of course it was a BMW.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. When I'm driving, I want you to do this so I can see you most visibly. As an aside, at least where I live, most of the lanes are sharrows anyway, so bikes are entitled to the whole lane. I think not many bikers or drivers are aware of this and it causes grief for everyone involved.
repsilat 8y ago
This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.
- komali2 8y ago
  I'm not sure I agree - I've never lived in an American city where cyclists didn't blow through reds. I hear it's the norm (though still illegal) in the UK as well.
  - stefan_ 8y ago
    Car drivers and cyclists blow reds at much the same rates. Only car drivers end up killing a significant number of people doing so, though. Also: outgroup, confirmation bias.
  - gamblor956 8y ago
    It used to happen a lot in LA as well, until they started building out bike lanes and ticketing cyclists for traffic violations like running red lights. It still happens, but way less now than it used. That, and a lot of the more reckless cyclists ended up donating their organs...
- grandmczeb 8y ago
  Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.
  - samstave 8y ago
    Seriously, I have been a cyclist for a decade. Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe. Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron. Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way anyone else makes a decision. I once was yelled at by a guy who was waiting for a crosswalk, but all lights were red and all traffic was stopped - there was literally no traffic, and I was on the side of the T in the street, on Embarcadero in SF, where the bike lane continued through the intersection. There was literally no reason for a bike to stop for the light, as there was no reason for any other vehicle to interfere with the bike lane. So I continued on, and this guy got so angry and was yelling at me and flipping me off becuase I didnt obey the red light. It didnt make sense to "obey" so I didnt. This can happen a lot, where the rule is to stop, but all other inputs are contrary to the rule. So, be smart, be aware, stop when it is necessary, but not necessarily when it is "required".
TylerE 8y ago
Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.
- wafflesraccoon 8y ago
  Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.
  - djrogers 8y ago
    Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.
    - 3pt14159 8y ago
      Roundabouts and yield signs. For T-intersections no yield along the top for cross intersections that can't be roundabouts for whatever reason make the yield the direction that has a bike lane if possible. The problem with coming to a complete stop on a bike is that for people getting to work it means a much more likely chance that you end up there sweaty; and most work places don't have a shower.
    - aqme28 8y ago
      Here's a simple fix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Stop signs become yield signs for cyclists. Red lights become stop signs.
      - rootusrootus 8y ago
        Works for me. The only time I have a problem with a bike running a stop sign is when they do it at speed. Riding up, looking both ways, and safely taking your turn without fully stopping seems totally okay to me. Cool story time: only time I ever got in trouble on a bike was when I (on campus, even) blew through a stop sign at an intersection that was not even publicly accessible. State Police saw me and chased me down and pulled me over on my bike :-). She had a point. I didn't just mosey through that stop sign, I blew it at speed. Dumb kid.
throwaway427 8y ago
You say scorned, I say entitled.
walshemj 8y ago
No they are kind being entitled dicks (and it will be 99.9% male offenders) - I did not ride like that in London in the 80's when there where less bikes on the road.
Angostura 8y ago
I cycle in London, and frequently don't use bike lanes (because there aren't any in the bits of town I cycle in). There's no excuse for pulling the dumb shit you list, other than weaving through traffic.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

imgabe 8y ago

I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.

beatgammit 8y ago
Hey, if they're honking, they see you, and that's the most important thing. I get far more close calls when I stay to the right than when I take up the whole lane. I fully support these scooters doing the same. People may complain about scooters and bikes in a traffic lane, but if it catches on, we should see less total traffic since they're more compact and they'll probably avoid the more busy, higher speed roads anyway.
rubicon33 8y ago
Good luck to you, it's a dangerous game you're playing. It just takes one idiot in a car who doesn't notice you because they're checking their instagram feed, or whatever, for your life to be over. I knew someone growing up who was a very successful banker. He had everything - 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house, etc. Cycled to work every day. One day, someone didn't see him. Doctors managed to save his life but he was unable to use any muscle from his neck down. Had to be on a respirator for the rest of his life. Couldn't talk. Etc. He killed himself by driving his motorized wheelchair into a pool. He left behind a beautiful family and wife. Good luck, be safe. For the record, I fully support bicyclists and wish our cities were designed better to promote their safe use. Unfortunately, they aren't right now, and I hate to see people needlessly punished for choosing to cycle to work.
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  Taking your place in the lane is much safer than riding in the gutter.
- notyourwork 8y ago
  Does this also mean we don’t fly planes because of terrorism? I sympathize for the family and such a tragic situation but let’s not blame the biker nor declare biking as not the right transportation because drivers aren’t all awesome at driving.
  - rubicon33 8y ago
    You should re-read what I wrote, because I certainly didn't blame the biker. I wished him good luck while acknowledging the fault lies in the "idiot" drivers who are checking their phone rather than paying attention.
- imgabe 8y ago
  I also knew someone who was very successful and died too young leaving behind 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house etc. (I'm not being flip, this is true). He died in a car accident. I'll take the relatively small risk of being hit while biking in exchange for the 100% chance of the very positive benefits (free exercise, no traffic, free parking). Driving has about the same risk of killing you and 100% chance of making you fat, miserable, and angry.
  - refurb 8y ago
    You are 15 times more likely to be killed on Britain's roads if you ride a bike than if you drive a car.[1] If you look at total deaths they may seem comparable to driving, but way more people drive than cycle. Good on you for dedicating yourself to cycling, but you shouldn't ignore the increase in risk. [1]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety-laws-new-kim-briggs-death-warning-against-witch-hunt-a7960291.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/cycle-safety...
    - 8y ago
enraged_camel 8y ago
I hate to break it to you, but you aren't exactly playing this game from a position of power. If an accident occurs, you will be the one seriously injured or worse.
notyourwork 8y ago
100% agree, if you don’t take the lane and ride on side of it cars try to pass far to close for comfort or safety. The middle means I’m claiming this lane please pass on left.
thrav 8y ago
Yeah, that works until they pass you anyway and you get hit by their mirror. Of course it was a BMW.
dfxm12 8y ago
I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. When I'm driving, I want you to do this so I can see you most visibly. As an aside, at least where I live, most of the lanes are sharrows anyway, so bikes are entitled to the whole lane. I think not many bikers or drivers are aware of this and it causes grief for everyone involved.

repsilat 8y ago

This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.

komali2 8y ago
I'm not sure I agree - I've never lived in an American city where cyclists didn't blow through reds. I hear it's the norm (though still illegal) in the UK as well.
- stefan_ 8y ago
  Car drivers and cyclists blow reds at much the same rates. Only car drivers end up killing a significant number of people doing so, though. Also: outgroup, confirmation bias.
- gamblor956 8y ago
  It used to happen a lot in LA as well, until they started building out bike lanes and ticketing cyclists for traffic violations like running red lights. It still happens, but way less now than it used. That, and a lot of the more reckless cyclists ended up donating their organs...
grandmczeb 8y ago
Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.
- samstave 8y ago
  Seriously, I have been a cyclist for a decade. Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe. Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron. Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way anyone else makes a decision. I once was yelled at by a guy who was waiting for a crosswalk, but all lights were red and all traffic was stopped - there was literally no traffic, and I was on the side of the T in the street, on Embarcadero in SF, where the bike lane continued through the intersection. There was literally no reason for a bike to stop for the light, as there was no reason for any other vehicle to interfere with the bike lane. So I continued on, and this guy got so angry and was yelling at me and flipping me off becuase I didnt obey the red light. It didnt make sense to "obey" so I didnt. This can happen a lot, where the rule is to stop, but all other inputs are contrary to the rule. So, be smart, be aware, stop when it is necessary, but not necessarily when it is "required".

TylerE 8y ago

Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.

wafflesraccoon 8y ago
Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.
- djrogers 8y ago
  Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.
  - 3pt14159 8y ago
    Roundabouts and yield signs. For T-intersections no yield along the top for cross intersections that can't be roundabouts for whatever reason make the yield the direction that has a bike lane if possible. The problem with coming to a complete stop on a bike is that for people getting to work it means a much more likely chance that you end up there sweaty; and most work places don't have a shower.
  - aqme28 8y ago
    Here's a simple fix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Stop signs become yield signs for cyclists. Red lights become stop signs.
    - rootusrootus 8y ago
      Works for me. The only time I have a problem with a bike running a stop sign is when they do it at speed. Riding up, looking both ways, and safely taking your turn without fully stopping seems totally okay to me. Cool story time: only time I ever got in trouble on a bike was when I (on campus, even) blew through a stop sign at an intersection that was not even publicly accessible. State Police saw me and chased me down and pulled me over on my bike :-). She had a point. I didn't just mosey through that stop sign, I blew it at speed. Dumb kid.

throwaway427 8y ago

You say scorned, I say entitled.

walshemj 8y ago

No they are kind being entitled dicks (and it will be 99.9% male offenders) - I did not ride like that in London in the 80's when there where less bikes on the road.

Angostura 8y ago

I cycle in London, and frequently don't use bike lanes (because there aren't any in the bits of town I cycle in). There's no excuse for pulling the dumb shit you list, other than weaving through traffic.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]