8 ms·

>They belong in the bike lane (which should exist in the first place) the problem is the existence of bike lanes. If public officials start saying "scooters b

• komali2 8y ago
  > because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph. This is unsustainable. It's caused blowback from cyclists. "Fine, you want me to play in traffic, I'm going to start doing some dumb shit." I say this as a cyclist, I'm doing only 5 miles round trip but I do it every day. I see people blow red lights, weaving in and out of traffic, hopping onto the sidewalk, blasting through crosswalks inbetween pedestrians. I mean yea, don't give them bikelanes, this is what happens, they feel scorned or something and start breaking the law.
  • imgabe 8y ago
    I also bike. Don't give me a bike lane? That's fine, I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. Honk all you like, I'm not going to give you room to try and squeeze between me and the oncoming traffic while I risk getting doored. Cars can wait.
    • beatgammit 8y ago
      Hey, if they're honking, they see you, and that's the most important thing. I get far more close calls when I stay to the right than when I take up the whole lane. I fully support these scooters doing the same. People may complain about scooters and bikes in a traffic lane, but if it catches on, we should see less total traffic since they're more compact and they'll probably avoid the more busy, higher speed roads anyway.
    • rubicon33 8y ago
      Good luck to you, it's a dangerous game you're playing. It just takes one idiot in a car who doesn't notice you because they're checking their instagram feed, or whatever, for your life to be over. I knew someone growing up who was a very successful banker. He had everything - 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house, etc. Cycled to work every day. One day, someone didn't see him. Doctors managed to save his life but he was unable to use any muscle from his neck down. Had to be on a respirator for the rest of his life. Couldn't talk. Etc. He killed himself by driving his motorized wheelchair into a pool. He left behind a beautiful family and wife. Good luck, be safe. For the record, I fully support bicyclists and wish our cities were designed better to promote their safe use. Unfortunately, they aren't right now, and I hate to see people needlessly punished for choosing to cycle to work.
      • tonyedgecombe 8y ago
        Taking your place in the lane is much safer than riding in the gutter.
      • notyourwork 8y ago
        Does this also mean we don’t fly planes because of terrorism? I sympathize for the family and such a tragic situation but let’s not blame the biker nor declare biking as not the right transportation because drivers aren’t all awesome at driving.
        • rubicon33 8y ago
          You should re-read what I wrote, because I certainly didn't blame the biker. I wished him good luck while acknowledging the fault lies in the "idiot" drivers who are checking their phone rather than paying attention.
      • imgabe 8y ago
        I also knew someone who was very successful and died too young leaving behind 3 kids, a beautiful wife, amazing house etc. (I'm not being flip, this is true). He died in a car accident. I'll take the relatively small risk of being hit while biking in exchange for the 100% chance of the very positive benefits (free exercise, no traffic, free parking). Driving has about the same risk of killing you and 100% chance of making you fat, miserable, and angry.
    • enraged_camel 8y ago
      I hate to break it to you, but you aren't exactly playing this game from a position of power. If an accident occurs, you will be the one seriously injured or worse.
    • notyourwork 8y ago
      100% agree, if you don’t take the lane and ride on side of it cars try to pass far to close for comfort or safety. The middle means I’m claiming this lane please pass on left.
    • thrav 8y ago
      Yeah, that works until they pass you anyway and you get hit by their mirror. Of course it was a BMW.
    • dfxm12 8y ago
      I'll take the middle of the traffic lane. When I'm driving, I want you to do this so I can see you most visibly. As an aside, at least where I live, most of the lanes are sharrows anyway, so bikes are entitled to the whole lane. I think not many bikers or drivers are aware of this and it causes grief for everyone involved.
  • repsilat 8y ago
    This might be one of those San Francisco problems. In most places a combination of law enforcement and peer shaming would discourage cyclists from breaking the law. Cracking down on law-breaking cyclists in SF would "send the wrong message" though, and the local culture trends more towards self-regard than self-awareness.
    • komali2 8y ago
      I'm not sure I agree - I've never lived in an American city where cyclists didn't blow through reds. I hear it's the norm (though still illegal) in the UK as well.
      • stefan_ 8y ago
        Car drivers and cyclists blow reds at much the same rates. Only car drivers end up killing a significant number of people doing so, though. Also: outgroup, confirmation bias.
      • gamblor956 8y ago
        It used to happen a lot in LA as well, until they started building out bike lanes and ticketing cyclists for traffic violations like running red lights. It still happens, but way less now than it used. That, and a lot of the more reckless cyclists ended up donating their organs...
    • grandmczeb 8y ago
      Cyclists constantly break the law in literally every city I’ve ever seen cyclists in. As long as they’re being safe, I don’t really blame them either - very few cities are designed with cyclists in mind and the letter of the law is usually hugely inconvenient.
      • samstave 8y ago
        Seriously, I have been a cyclist for a decade. Saying things like "blowing through a stop sign" is stupid in the vast majority of cases, as stopping can actually be more unsafe. Also, its so freaking tiresome to assume that every single human being is a fucking moron. Cyclists have all their faculties, they can see, hear, move, discern. Thus, they are making a judgement to "blow through" a stop-sign in the same way anyone else makes a decision. I once was yelled at by a guy who was waiting for a crosswalk, but all lights were red and all traffic was stopped - there was literally no traffic, and I was on the side of the T in the street, on Embarcadero in SF, where the bike lane continued through the intersection. There was literally no reason for a bike to stop for the light, as there was no reason for any other vehicle to interfere with the bike lane. So I continued on, and this guy got so angry and was yelling at me and flipping me off becuase I didnt obey the red light. It didnt make sense to "obey" so I didnt. This can happen a lot, where the rule is to stop, but all other inputs are contrary to the rule. So, be smart, be aware, stop when it is necessary, but not necessarily when it is "required".
  • TylerE 8y ago
    Start doing dumb shit? I've been seeing cyclist blow through stop signs for 30 years.
    • wafflesraccoon 8y ago
      Personal anecdote, cyclists blow through stop signs because the infrastructure isn't built for bicycles. Having to come to a stop and then start up on a bicycle is the hardest part and cyclists hate it. Source: Commuting to work on a bicycle for years.
      • djrogers 8y ago
        Uhh, so how exactly would you reccomend building the infrastructure to support the use case of 'never having to stop'? Intersections are a thing, and bridges/overpasses are very expensive - especially if you start demanding them at literally ever one.
        • 3pt14159 8y ago
          Roundabouts and yield signs. For T-intersections no yield along the top for cross intersections that can't be roundabouts for whatever reason make the yield the direction that has a bike lane if possible. The problem with coming to a complete stop on a bike is that for people getting to work it means a much more likely chance that you end up there sweaty; and most work places don't have a shower.
        • aqme28 8y ago
          Here's a simple fix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_stop Stop signs become yield signs for cyclists. Red lights become stop signs.
          • rootusrootus 8y ago
            Works for me. The only time I have a problem with a bike running a stop sign is when they do it at speed. Riding up, looking both ways, and safely taking your turn without fully stopping seems totally okay to me. Cool story time: only time I ever got in trouble on a bike was when I (on campus, even) blew through a stop sign at an intersection that was not even publicly accessible. State Police saw me and chased me down and pulled me over on my bike :-). She had a point. I didn't just mosey through that stop sign, I blew it at speed. Dumb kid.
  • throwaway427 8y ago
    You say scorned, I say entitled.
  • walshemj 8y ago
    No they are kind being entitled dicks (and it will be 99.9% male offenders) - I did not ride like that in London in the 80's when there where less bikes on the road.
  • Angostura 8y ago
    I cycle in London, and frequently don't use bike lanes (because there aren't any in the bits of town I cycle in). There's no excuse for pulling the dumb shit you list, other than weaving through traffic.
  • deleted 8y ago
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• abrichr 8y ago
  > cyclists are weird ... e-scooters are for "normal people" Could you please elaborate on this? Why do you think so (or why do you think that is a widely held belief)? If anything I would have thought that it was the opposite.
  • notatoad 8y ago
    It's really just my perception as a cyclist - how i'm treated on the road, and how bike lanes are addressed in my community.
    • robotkdick 8y ago
      Or ignored ;) A few years ago, I rode my bike around Lake Michigan and blew out a wheel while in the upper peninsula. While sitting and waiting for the replacement, mostly at a bar, one of the truck driver regulars told me when he sees a bike rider, he swerves to hit them. That actually happens in some places. I've experienced it first hand. While at a stoplight, I was also told by a driver in LA that I should be careful riding my motorcycle or someone might hit me. I asked him if he was planning on hitting me, and he said maybe. Traffic in general is a dangerous place to be, but when you combine a lack of education or intelligence or negligence, it is the most dangerous part of our lives.
  • samcheng 8y ago
    This was clearly satire, but the idea is that only a certain subset of people are active enough to ride a bike. If e-scooters take off, that's a new/larger group of people traveling at 15mph. Infrastructure that was marginal for the small cohort of bicyclists will become obviously inadequate as people riding e-scooters, e-bikes, motor skateboards, etc. join them. As a bicyclist who wants more and safer bike lanes, I welcome them!
    • ravenstine 8y ago
      That's why it's aggravating to me how many cities insist on building everything at ground level. Cars? Ground level. Bikes and pedestrians? Ground level. Trains? Ground level, creating chaos at intersections. And now we have tons of scooters. Ground level, and causing chaos as people ride them without helmets and weave into car traffic. Adding more ground level transit isn't ever going to be the solution, and widening lanes doesn't ever seem to work. Cities like LA need to stop being bought off by the developers and instead build larger versions of these for non-automobile traffic: https://www.magneticmicrosphere.com/ckfinder/userfiles/images/Skyways-Minneapolis-2005-09-27.jpg https://www.magneticmicrosphere.com/ckfinder/userfiles/image...
• Matthias247 8y ago
  > because cyclists are weird and it's okay to tell them to just ride in amongst trucks travelling 40mph when a bike lane abruptly ends No, they are not weird! They do it because that's the only way to ride a bike in most of todays cities. Weird are general the car drivers who get upset every time they see a bike, and can't wait to overtake them with far less than a minimal safety distance.
  • porphyrogene 8y ago
    I think he was speaking from what he perceives as the perspective of civic decision-makers, e.g. "Cyclists are weird, we don't need to think about the efficacy of bike travel in our city." Otherwise his comment doesn't really make sense. This whole thing reminds me of the Portlandia take on this issue. Everyone just hates the other group because they are serving their own interests. No, "general car drivers" are not weird and that contentious attitude is ridiculous. Not everything has to be a dichotomous issue.
    • robotkdick 8y ago
      I completely agree. In this case, there are at least four groups: automobile driver, motorcyclist, bicyclist, and pedestrian. We are nearly all biased, but when we exchange roles, I'd argue that most of us (including myself) will point the finger at the other group because it's so much easier to see the faulty behavior from an outsider perspective. That's human nature, and it's exactly what's happening in politics at large. People from cities don't understand people from rural areas and vice versa. We think we're all so far apart, but in reality, our views are all grouped really close together (they're all human views). This is why we face major challenges solving larger problems, like global warming or plastic in the ocean, because it's easier to counter-attack than to do the work to change our own behaviors despite the faults we see around us.
• notyourwork 8y ago
  As a cyclist this is well said. I’ve learned to accept it but try to avoid it. My wife (not a cyclist) wouldn’t dare right one in traffic.
• dang 8y ago
  We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18408037 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18408037 and marked it off-topic. Cyclists vs. drivers is one of the most repetitive flamewar topics we see.