8 ms·

That really said nothing. They actually previously had a policy that if you were required to take sexual harassment training and didn't you got docked 1 point?

That really said nothing. They actually previously had a policy that if you were required to take sexual harassment training and didn't you got docked 1 point? Wouldn't getting fired be a more appropriate penalty? However they take this "seriously" so I'm sure everything will be fine for Google employees.

jahlove 8y ago
> Wouldn't getting fired be a more appropriate penalty? no.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Care to explain why you think not?
  - jahlove 8y ago
    Terminating an employee for cause is a big deal. Sexual harassment is worthy of termination. Failing to take sexual harassment training is not.
    - favorited 8y ago
      Consistently failing to take training required by your employer is absolutely grounds for termination.
      - jahlove 8y ago
        His suggestion wasn't about consistent failure. He said that employees should be fired if they don't take it, which is absurdly heavy handed.
        CamTin 8y ago
        Why? Your boss tells you to do something. You either do it, or she fires you. If you expect anything different, you are deluded.
        shittyadmin 8y ago
        Eh, my workplace isn't like that, my management is happy to entertain my pushbacks to a point. If it was like that I'd quit in a heartbeat.
        atq2119 8y ago
        Sure. But I don't think anybody is talking about immediate firings without warning here. If your manager keeps telling you, you have to do X, for a month and you simply refuse to do it, they'd be quite right to fire you.
        craftyguy 8y ago
        I didn't have any suggestions, I merely asked for the counter argument to the idea.
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Since when do employees get to choose which trainings they will and will not take? We have this training. Along with privacy training, and lots of other trainings. You take the trainings that HR lays out. If you want to play a game of pick-and-choose, then you're shown the door.
  - 01100011 8y ago
    Have you ever been through sexual harassment training? Did you feel like it was helpful? I've been through several and found that no one really takes it seriously. If the things they tell you in sexual harassment training are new to you, you probably aren't going to learn your lesson. Problem employees aren't going to change their behavior. Enforcement of standards is much more critical. Sexual harassment training is a CYA move by companies.
    - lallysingh 8y ago
      I think it's helpful if you come from a different culture where some of those things would be considered acceptable.
      - adamrezich 8y ago
        Can you give a concrete example of this? I'm having a hard time imagining it.
        mynameishere 8y ago
        Are there a lot of people asking intentionally daft questions in this thread? "Gee willikers Wally, shouldn't we fire people for missing the highly informative HR-mandated 'be polite' video?" No? "Really? Gee, Willikers, why not?" Anyway. These things have been a complete joke for a long time: https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-sexual-harassment-and-you/2751966 https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-se...
        praneshp 8y ago
        If you're referring to `adamrezich`, then I can second that I had the same question. I'm probably daft, but not intentionally so.
        lallysingh 8y ago
        Repeatedly asking a woman out. I recall a friend upsetting a love interest because he didn't repeatedly ask her out, as was customary where she was from. She didn't think he was serious because he wasn't trying hard enough. Not ok here, but different in other places.
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Why would you fire a competent, productive employee for noncompliance if you could completely correct the noncompliance with a medium-sized slap on the wrist?
    - reaperducer 8y ago
      Because not attending the class makes them a million-dollar liability and a hazard to the company.
      - michaelt 8y ago
        If you think sending people on a training course eliminates the company's liability, I've got bad news for you.
        reaperducer 8y ago
        I said nothing about eliminates. But not having the training makes the employee a five million dollar liability.
tytso 8y ago
You didn't read the post carefully, apparently. Previously there was no penalty for skipping the mandatory training. (The fact that such training is "mandatory" is required by US law. Like most companies, such training is generally done on-line. It was that way at all of my previous places of employment, including at IBM. And I'm not aware of any impact, other than continuing to get nag e-mails, at any of my previous employers for not bothering to do the training.) Moving forward, there now is a penalty for skipping said training. More importantly, it applies for everyone, including Directors and VP's, not just individual contributors. And one point on Perf is a big deal; it's the difference between Significantly Exceeds Expectation and Exceeds Expectations (or Exceeds Expectations vs Meets Expectations), and this impacts salary increases, bonuses, and promotion.

jahlove 8y ago

> Wouldn't getting fired be a more appropriate penalty? no.

craftyguy 8y ago
Care to explain why you think not?
- jahlove 8y ago
  Terminating an employee for cause is a big deal. Sexual harassment is worthy of termination. Failing to take sexual harassment training is not.
  - favorited 8y ago
    Consistently failing to take training required by your employer is absolutely grounds for termination.
    - jahlove 8y ago
      His suggestion wasn't about consistent failure. He said that employees should be fired if they don't take it, which is absurdly heavy handed.
      - CamTin 8y ago
        Why? Your boss tells you to do something. You either do it, or she fires you. If you expect anything different, you are deluded.
        shittyadmin 8y ago
        Eh, my workplace isn't like that, my management is happy to entertain my pushbacks to a point. If it was like that I'd quit in a heartbeat.
        atq2119 8y ago
        Sure. But I don't think anybody is talking about immediate firings without warning here. If your manager keeps telling you, you have to do X, for a month and you simply refuse to do it, they'd be quite right to fire you.
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        I didn't have any suggestions, I merely asked for the counter argument to the idea.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Since when do employees get to choose which trainings they will and will not take? We have this training. Along with privacy training, and lots of other trainings. You take the trainings that HR lays out. If you want to play a game of pick-and-choose, then you're shown the door.
- 01100011 8y ago
  Have you ever been through sexual harassment training? Did you feel like it was helpful? I've been through several and found that no one really takes it seriously. If the things they tell you in sexual harassment training are new to you, you probably aren't going to learn your lesson. Problem employees aren't going to change their behavior. Enforcement of standards is much more critical. Sexual harassment training is a CYA move by companies.
  - lallysingh 8y ago
    I think it's helpful if you come from a different culture where some of those things would be considered acceptable.
    - adamrezich 8y ago
      Can you give a concrete example of this? I'm having a hard time imagining it.
      - mynameishere 8y ago
        Are there a lot of people asking intentionally daft questions in this thread? "Gee willikers Wally, shouldn't we fire people for missing the highly informative HR-mandated 'be polite' video?" No? "Really? Gee, Willikers, why not?" Anyway. These things have been a complete joke for a long time: https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-sexual-harassment-and-you/2751966 https://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/tv-funhouse-se...
        praneshp 8y ago
        If you're referring to `adamrezich`, then I can second that I had the same question. I'm probably daft, but not intentionally so.
      - lallysingh 8y ago
        Repeatedly asking a woman out. I recall a friend upsetting a love interest because he didn't repeatedly ask her out, as was customary where she was from. She didn't think he was serious because he wasn't trying hard enough. Not ok here, but different in other places.
- michaelt 8y ago
  Why would you fire a competent, productive employee for noncompliance if you could completely correct the noncompliance with a medium-sized slap on the wrist?
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Because not attending the class makes them a million-dollar liability and a hazard to the company.
    - michaelt 8y ago
      If you think sending people on a training course eliminates the company's liability, I've got bad news for you.
      - reaperducer 8y ago
        I said nothing about eliminates. But not having the training makes the employee a five million dollar liability.

tytso 8y ago

You didn't read the post carefully, apparently. Previously there was no penalty for skipping the mandatory training. (The fact that such training is "mandatory" is required by US law. Like most companies, such training is generally done on-line. It was that way at all of my previous places of employment, including at IBM. And I'm not aware of any impact, other than continuing to get nag e-mails, at any of my previous employers for not bothering to do the training.) Moving forward, there now is a penalty for skipping said training. More importantly, it applies for everyone, including Directors and VP's, not just individual contributors. And one point on Perf is a big deal; it's the difference between Significantly Exceeds Expectation and Exceeds Expectations (or Exceeds Expectations vs Meets Expectations), and this impacts salary increases, bonuses, and promotion.