5 ms·

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 m

I used Bird, Lime, Lyft, and Jump scooters over the weekend in LA and they were great for getting around when I'd have otherwise considered driving (over a 45 minute walk). I tried a Skip scooter again when I got back to SF, and once again, it simply could not handle a minor (for SF) hill. I don't know what the solution is, since it seems like a bad idea to power them more to handle hills given the dangers that would pose on flat (or downhill) terrain, but I can't imagine them really taking hold in the same way in hilly cities.

hammock 8y ago
You probably got one with low battery. It's not possible to "overpower" them as you suggest because they have a governor that limits the top speed.
- asaph 8y ago
  Even on a 100% charge, a typical e-Scooter used by Bird, Spin, etc. struggle on steep uphill climbs.
  - komali2 8y ago
    You gotta kick a bit, I don't think they're meant to be fully driven on those hills. Just like ebikes - you're still pedaling.
    - asaph 8y ago
      No. The bikes are "e-assisted" and you're supposed to pedal. The e-scooters are not designed to be "e-assisted". You're only supposed to kick to start your ride and the motor takes over from there. There is a max incline the scooters are designed to handle. The intent is not that the scooter goes into an e-assisted mode on a steep incline.
      - dzhiurgis 8y ago
        Here in Auckland even road-illegal 1500W e-bike with throttle kinda struggles to climb uphill, just like Limebike.
    - gomox 8y ago
      You can't really kick these things on uphills (I've only used Lime scooters, but I'm assuming others are similar). They are very far off the ground for any practical kicking, and since it's the front wheel that is powered, you lose traction as soon as your weight moves backwards (as it does when you kick).
  - gomox 8y ago
    I used Limes in Prague recently and based on my experience on those mild hills I was actually wondering if they have different ones in San Francisco, because I don't see them being of much use there.
malandrew 8y ago
The Jump bikes do great on hills.
goobynight 8y ago
You can increase power or at least torque while limiting top speed, especially since I think it's an electric throttle. Maybe they can tune the throttle mapping
Qworg 8y ago
A "hill climbing governor" should be a trivial addition for any scooter manufacturer.
justchilly 8y ago
The old Bird and Lime scooters had 250W motors. The new Skip scooters have 350W (plus suspension which is nice). The skips can get to a walking pace up to ~10% grade, but grind to a halt anywhere near Nob/Russian Hill. You need at least 750W to do the trick. They also all have just a single break, which makes going down those hills dangerous.
- twoheadedboy 8y ago
  What about Jump bikes? Because they go up hills pretty easily. Not the steepest ones but I get around pretty well with them in my neighborhood, which has lots of hills.
  - justchilly 8y ago
    Jump bikes are 250 and yep, pretty good for SF hills. 250 W goes a lot further on an ebike (as a compliment to to leg power) than a scooter.
- henryfjordan 8y ago
  The Xiaomi scooter I have has 2 brakes, but you only have direct control of one. The motor does some regenerative braking any time you let off the accelerator, which I've found is enough to cruise down a moderate grade quite nicely. Sometimes on a steeper grade (which SF has some of) you need to reach for the disc brake. This essentially gives you a front and rear brake. To my knowledge all the scooters do some sort of regenerative braking. The Segway-brand scooters that Lime uses seem to ONLY have regenerative braking but those give you a little paddle to control it with. I wouldn't trust one of those to go down-hill, but anything with a disc-brake is fine.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  I have a 250w ebike and I have powered up slopes so steep I have to put my chin on the handlebars to keep the front wheel on the ground. Power isn't the issue. Its just piss weak motors.
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  You need to look at torque for hill climbing. Power defines top speed. Higher voltage batteries mean higher torque. There are ton of road-legal bikes with huge 52V batteries and top speed capped at 25km/h.
pfooti 8y ago
excitingly, when I read the Bird terms of service (while they were still allowed in SF), they stipulated that you could not ride their scooters down hills. The scooter struggled to go up a (not particularly steep) hill, and I was breaking the rules going back down. I only rode the scooter the one time, after that, I just walked the two blocks to Judah to ride transit.

hammock 8y ago

You probably got one with low battery. It's not possible to "overpower" them as you suggest because they have a governor that limits the top speed.

asaph 8y ago
Even on a 100% charge, a typical e-Scooter used by Bird, Spin, etc. struggle on steep uphill climbs.
- komali2 8y ago
  You gotta kick a bit, I don't think they're meant to be fully driven on those hills. Just like ebikes - you're still pedaling.
  - asaph 8y ago
    No. The bikes are "e-assisted" and you're supposed to pedal. The e-scooters are not designed to be "e-assisted". You're only supposed to kick to start your ride and the motor takes over from there. There is a max incline the scooters are designed to handle. The intent is not that the scooter goes into an e-assisted mode on a steep incline.
    - dzhiurgis 8y ago
      Here in Auckland even road-illegal 1500W e-bike with throttle kinda struggles to climb uphill, just like Limebike.
  - gomox 8y ago
    You can't really kick these things on uphills (I've only used Lime scooters, but I'm assuming others are similar). They are very far off the ground for any practical kicking, and since it's the front wheel that is powered, you lose traction as soon as your weight moves backwards (as it does when you kick).
- gomox 8y ago
  I used Limes in Prague recently and based on my experience on those mild hills I was actually wondering if they have different ones in San Francisco, because I don't see them being of much use there.

malandrew 8y ago

The Jump bikes do great on hills.

goobynight 8y ago

You can increase power or at least torque while limiting top speed, especially since I think it's an electric throttle. Maybe they can tune the throttle mapping

Qworg 8y ago

A "hill climbing governor" should be a trivial addition for any scooter manufacturer.

justchilly 8y ago

The old Bird and Lime scooters had 250W motors. The new Skip scooters have 350W (plus suspension which is nice). The skips can get to a walking pace up to ~10% grade, but grind to a halt anywhere near Nob/Russian Hill. You need at least 750W to do the trick. They also all have just a single break, which makes going down those hills dangerous.

twoheadedboy 8y ago
What about Jump bikes? Because they go up hills pretty easily. Not the steepest ones but I get around pretty well with them in my neighborhood, which has lots of hills.
- justchilly 8y ago
  Jump bikes are 250 and yep, pretty good for SF hills. 250 W goes a lot further on an ebike (as a compliment to to leg power) than a scooter.
henryfjordan 8y ago
The Xiaomi scooter I have has 2 brakes, but you only have direct control of one. The motor does some regenerative braking any time you let off the accelerator, which I've found is enough to cruise down a moderate grade quite nicely. Sometimes on a steeper grade (which SF has some of) you need to reach for the disc brake. This essentially gives you a front and rear brake. To my knowledge all the scooters do some sort of regenerative braking. The Segway-brand scooters that Lime uses seem to ONLY have regenerative braking but those give you a little paddle to control it with. I wouldn't trust one of those to go down-hill, but anything with a disc-brake is fine.
ndnxhs 8y ago
I have a 250w ebike and I have powered up slopes so steep I have to put my chin on the handlebars to keep the front wheel on the ground. Power isn't the issue. Its just piss weak motors.
dzhiurgis 8y ago
You need to look at torque for hill climbing. Power defines top speed. Higher voltage batteries mean higher torque. There are ton of road-legal bikes with huge 52V batteries and top speed capped at 25km/h.

pfooti 8y ago

excitingly, when I read the Bird terms of service (while they were still allowed in SF), they stipulated that you could not ride their scooters down hills. The scooter struggled to go up a (not particularly steep) hill, and I was breaking the rules going back down. I only rode the scooter the one time, after that, I just walked the two blocks to Judah to ride transit.