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So a few people said that PHP will die in the next few years because of things like Ruby and Python becoming better and better, does anyone here feel the same?

So a few people said that PHP will die in the next few years because of things like Ruby and Python becoming better and better, does anyone here feel the same? I argued that PHP has such a low barrier to entry and is so accessible that I don't think it'll happen -- at least not to Ruby/Python -- anyone agree/disagree?

dshah 16y ago
I don't think PHP will die in the next few years. For the same reason that C++ (and for that matter, even COBOL) haven't really died. There are enough people that need it kept alive that it will keep going for a while.
- okaramian 16y ago
  Exactly, legacy code isn't going anywhere. If you keep your eyes open you'll see plenty of Classic ASP around. It's a lot of investment to refactor an application from one language to another, and it's a waste of time from a business perspective if "stuff works".
  - nickik 16y ago
    i work with asp classic and that wont be thrown away in the next 10+ years.
jamesbritt 16y ago
PHP die? Unlikely. Among the people I know who are primarily Ruby devs I find some number who are looking at Haskell, Clojure, and JavaScript, and some may just move from Ruby to language X. Among the PHP people I know, some have an interest in Ruby, but few seem inclined to make the switch. Same goes for ASP/.net devs I know. And, overall, I get the sense there are more PHP developers than Rubyists (at least in my part of the world). I gave an intro Ruby class at a recent CodeCamp, and attendance was much lower than similar presentations I've given in previous years. (My intro Haskell presentation had more people.) All this is anecdotal, but PHP seems to work really well for solving enough problems for enough people. We can dismiss these people as lacking sophistication or 1337-ness but apparently they are quite happy, and there's something to be said for that.
michaelchisari 16y ago
Not when there's so many major open source projects written in PHP (Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress, etc), and PHP support comes standard in every shared hosting environment out there. The install density is way too high, the language has been improved to the point where most of the issues people have with it are aesthetic, and there are a good amount of solid development frameworks out there to fill in any gaps. I think anyone who says PHP will die anytime soon is engaging in simple wishful thinking.
- mechanical_fish 16y ago
  the language has been improved to the point where most of the issues people have with it are aesthetic Now, let's not go too far.
  - michaelchisari 16y ago
    What would you say is missing?
    - mechanical_fish 16y ago
      This margin is too big to contain the answer. But I'll try to sum up: PHP was designed as a minimalist, procedural language designed to help occasional programmers write interpreted scripts that run in brief, efficient bursts to generate responses to HTTP requests in a classic CRUD-app context. It's designed to be the perfect language for someone who wants to embed code in a set of HTML templates, upload them to the server, and test them by clicking around and making sure the pages look right. These are PHP's great strengths, and the reason why it isn't going anywhere. But they are also its weaknesses. Attempts to drag PHP too far out of its sweet spot get gradually more painful until you start to cry and switch to something else. Today PHP makes me cry because Ruby is so, so much easier to test. Tomorrow there will be a different reason to cry.
      - michaelchisari 16y ago
        That's more of a general (if colorful) perspective on the language's origins and your experiences with it, but I'm wondering what specific features of the language you feel are missing? I have experience with both PHP and Ruby, by the way, and am lead developer for a very large open source application built in PHP, used mostly for pragmatic reasons, but I am interested in hearing what language features people feel PHP is missing.
Goladus 16y ago
Disagree, Python and Ruby have no better chance of killing PHP than they have of killing Perl. Neither language offers enough benefits to cause such a massive shift.

dshah 16y ago

I don't think PHP will die in the next few years. For the same reason that C++ (and for that matter, even COBOL) haven't really died. There are enough people that need it kept alive that it will keep going for a while.

okaramian 16y ago
Exactly, legacy code isn't going anywhere. If you keep your eyes open you'll see plenty of Classic ASP around. It's a lot of investment to refactor an application from one language to another, and it's a waste of time from a business perspective if "stuff works".
- nickik 16y ago
  i work with asp classic and that wont be thrown away in the next 10+ years.

jamesbritt 16y ago

PHP die? Unlikely. Among the people I know who are primarily Ruby devs I find some number who are looking at Haskell, Clojure, and JavaScript, and some may just move from Ruby to language X. Among the PHP people I know, some have an interest in Ruby, but few seem inclined to make the switch. Same goes for ASP/.net devs I know. And, overall, I get the sense there are more PHP developers than Rubyists (at least in my part of the world). I gave an intro Ruby class at a recent CodeCamp, and attendance was much lower than similar presentations I've given in previous years. (My intro Haskell presentation had more people.) All this is anecdotal, but PHP seems to work really well for solving enough problems for enough people. We can dismiss these people as lacking sophistication or 1337-ness but apparently they are quite happy, and there's something to be said for that.

michaelchisari 16y ago

Not when there's so many major open source projects written in PHP (Joomla, Drupal, Wordpress, etc), and PHP support comes standard in every shared hosting environment out there. The install density is way too high, the language has been improved to the point where most of the issues people have with it are aesthetic, and there are a good amount of solid development frameworks out there to fill in any gaps. I think anyone who says PHP will die anytime soon is engaging in simple wishful thinking.

mechanical_fish 16y ago
the language has been improved to the point where most of the issues people have with it are aesthetic Now, let's not go too far.
- michaelchisari 16y ago
  What would you say is missing?
  - mechanical_fish 16y ago
    This margin is too big to contain the answer. But I'll try to sum up: PHP was designed as a minimalist, procedural language designed to help occasional programmers write interpreted scripts that run in brief, efficient bursts to generate responses to HTTP requests in a classic CRUD-app context. It's designed to be the perfect language for someone who wants to embed code in a set of HTML templates, upload them to the server, and test them by clicking around and making sure the pages look right. These are PHP's great strengths, and the reason why it isn't going anywhere. But they are also its weaknesses. Attempts to drag PHP too far out of its sweet spot get gradually more painful until you start to cry and switch to something else. Today PHP makes me cry because Ruby is so, so much easier to test. Tomorrow there will be a different reason to cry.
    - michaelchisari 16y ago
      That's more of a general (if colorful) perspective on the language's origins and your experiences with it, but I'm wondering what specific features of the language you feel are missing? I have experience with both PHP and Ruby, by the way, and am lead developer for a very large open source application built in PHP, used mostly for pragmatic reasons, but I am interested in hearing what language features people feel PHP is missing.

Goladus 16y ago

Disagree, Python and Ruby have no better chance of killing PHP than they have of killing Perl. Neither language offers enough benefits to cause such a massive shift.