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The Chevvy bolt is sold at an $8000 loss. The Hyundai Kona Electric looks cool but is only going to be sold in small numbers and won't be available in much of

The Chevvy bolt is sold at an $8000 loss. The Hyundai Kona Electric looks cool but is only going to be sold in small numbers and won't be available in much of the USA https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-limited-u-s-availability/ https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-limited-u-s-avai... I wonder why.

Retric 8y ago
Not only are they losing money, it also starts at $36,620 which is more than the Tesla 3 base model and it’s tiny. Bolt: 164″ L x 70″ W Model 3: 185″ L x 73″ W Which is not nessisarily a bad thing for a city car.
- falcolas 8y ago
  The Tesla 3 base model is not in production right now. Only the higher priced models are. I'm sure they'll eventually get to it, but you're comparing a model that is available to buy today with one which is not.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Sure, in practice you can even get a 2019 Bolt for 9k under MSRP becase nobody wants them. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview/ https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview... Tesla may or may not start base model production in Q1 2019, but availability is not really helping the Bolt sell.
    - falcolas 8y ago
      Cars almost always sell under MSRP - because there's a middleman involved. For example: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview/ https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview... "Nobody wants one" is also hyperbolic - Chevy releases sale numbers, and while not top-of-the-line, they're also not 0.
      - Retric 8y ago
        Depends on the car and when you buy it. Some high demand cars sell over MSRP. Seeing deep discounts at the end of a model year is common when trying to shift inventory or when dealing with very high margin trim levels. Advertising 26% under MSRP for a base 2019 model in 2018 is a rather extreme case. PS: For some actual numbers: GM delivered 3,949 Bolt EVs during the last three months in the US from 6,710 units during the same period last year. In automotive sales terms that's very close to zero. https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-us/ https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-...
- kurthr 8y ago
  And when you add in the $8k loss, they are the same price as the profitable Model 3 you can buy today (not even the base model).
- drewg123 8y ago
  I looked at & test drove the Bolt before buying my Tesla. I kind of liked it, but I bought a Tesla instead. The two issues that pushed me to get a Tesla: 1) GM seem to go out of their way to make the Bolt seem cheap and unappealing. The seats in particular are too narrow and are uncomfortable. The car is wide enough to accommodate more comfortable seats, but they just decided to use the cheapest seats possible. 2) There is no DC fast charging network that the Bolt can use in the US. Thanks to the supercharging network, I can (and have) take thousand mile road trips in my Tesla without worrying that I'll be able to find a place to charge in a reasonable amount of time. With a Bolt, any trip approaching 1/2 the car's range (eg roughly 115mi) from home suddenly becomes an adventure where you have to look for slow level 2 chargers and be prepared to wait hours for your car to charge. The Chevy dealership where we drove the car had a charger, but it was ICE'd in by their inventory of giant gas guzzling SUVs. I imagined this scenario would be typical.
rootusrootus 8y ago
I'm more concerned with what's available on the market, not whether or not it sells in enough quantity to offset R&D, etc. Tesla had it's first profitable quarter in what, 15 years? It might be premature to move the goalposts ;-). The fact remains that both Chevy (or LG) and Hyundai clearly know how to make a battery that competes on price. Tesla doesn't have any magic technology, what they have is good marketing. They have a plausible shot at replacing BMW as the image car of choice for folks in the lower premium car range, which seems fairly lucrative. Not a bad niche to be in.
- codeulike 8y ago
  Chevy (or LG) and Hyundai clearly know how to make a battery that competes on price. No, they don't. That's my point. They've made long range EVs that they are selling at a loss, or only in small numbers which implies either loss-making or supply-chain problems. Tesla doesn't have any magic technology Thats not clear. Look at the recently announced Audi and Mercedes EV efforts (and the Jag i-Pace) and see how they compare with Tesla in terms of battery size, weight and efficiency. Sandy Munro says the Model 3 is at least 4 years ahead of anything else. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-25/why-tesla-s-big-deal-model-3-puts-it-years-ahead-of-competition-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-25/why-tesla-s...

Retric 8y ago

Not only are they losing money, it also starts at $36,620 which is more than the Tesla 3 base model and it’s tiny. Bolt: 164″ L x 70″ W Model 3: 185″ L x 73″ W Which is not nessisarily a bad thing for a city car.

falcolas 8y ago
The Tesla 3 base model is not in production right now. Only the higher priced models are. I'm sure they'll eventually get to it, but you're comparing a model that is available to buy today with one which is not.
- Retric 8y ago
  Sure, in practice you can even get a 2019 Bolt for 9k under MSRP becase nobody wants them. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview/ https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/747922437/overview... Tesla may or may not start base model production in Q1 2019, but availability is not really helping the Bolt sell.
  - falcolas 8y ago
    Cars almost always sell under MSRP - because there's a middleman involved. For example: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview/ https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/750619576/overview... "Nobody wants one" is also hyperbolic - Chevy releases sale numbers, and while not top-of-the-line, they're also not 0.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Depends on the car and when you buy it. Some high demand cars sell over MSRP. Seeing deep discounts at the end of a model year is common when trying to shift inventory or when dealing with very high margin trim levels. Advertising 26% under MSRP for a base 2019 model in 2018 is a rather extreme case. PS: For some actual numbers: GM delivered 3,949 Bolt EVs during the last three months in the US from 6,710 units during the same period last year. In automotive sales terms that's very close to zero. https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-us/ https://electrek.co/2018/10/03/chevy-bolt-ev-sales-slumping-...
kurthr 8y ago
And when you add in the $8k loss, they are the same price as the profitable Model 3 you can buy today (not even the base model).
drewg123 8y ago
I looked at & test drove the Bolt before buying my Tesla. I kind of liked it, but I bought a Tesla instead. The two issues that pushed me to get a Tesla: 1) GM seem to go out of their way to make the Bolt seem cheap and unappealing. The seats in particular are too narrow and are uncomfortable. The car is wide enough to accommodate more comfortable seats, but they just decided to use the cheapest seats possible. 2) There is no DC fast charging network that the Bolt can use in the US. Thanks to the supercharging network, I can (and have) take thousand mile road trips in my Tesla without worrying that I'll be able to find a place to charge in a reasonable amount of time. With a Bolt, any trip approaching 1/2 the car's range (eg roughly 115mi) from home suddenly becomes an adventure where you have to look for slow level 2 chargers and be prepared to wait hours for your car to charge. The Chevy dealership where we drove the car had a charger, but it was ICE'd in by their inventory of giant gas guzzling SUVs. I imagined this scenario would be typical.

rootusrootus 8y ago

I'm more concerned with what's available on the market, not whether or not it sells in enough quantity to offset R&D, etc. Tesla had it's first profitable quarter in what, 15 years? It might be premature to move the goalposts ;-). The fact remains that both Chevy (or LG) and Hyundai clearly know how to make a battery that competes on price. Tesla doesn't have any magic technology, what they have is good marketing. They have a plausible shot at replacing BMW as the image car of choice for folks in the lower premium car range, which seems fairly lucrative. Not a bad niche to be in.

codeulike 8y ago
Chevy (or LG) and Hyundai clearly know how to make a battery that competes on price. No, they don't. That's my point. They've made long range EVs that they are selling at a loss, or only in small numbers which implies either loss-making or supply-chain problems. Tesla doesn't have any magic technology Thats not clear. Look at the recently announced Audi and Mercedes EV efforts (and the Jag i-Pace) and see how they compare with Tesla in terms of battery size, weight and efficiency. Sandy Munro says the Model 3 is at least 4 years ahead of anything else. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-25/why-tesla-s-big-deal-model-3-puts-it-years-ahead-of-competition-video https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2018-10-25/why-tesla-s...