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I often enjoy Electrek's coverage, but they aren't a reliable news source. http://www.thedrive.com/news/24025/electreks-editor-in-chief-publisher-both-scoring-2

I often enjoy Electrek's coverage, but they aren't a reliable news source. http://www.thedrive.com/news/24025/electreks-editor-in-chief-publisher-both-scoring-250000-tesla-roadsters-for-free-by-gaming-referral-program http://www.thedrive.com/news/24025/electreks-editor-in-chief...

jessaustin 8y ago
Nothing in TFA seems suspicious to me. The main point, at least, is easy enough to confirm. 60B > 56B. https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap
- whtswrong 8y ago
  >Nothing in TFA seems suspicious to me. I don't know about "suspicious", but what exactly is the point? Tesla, whom many consider overvalued, has a higher market cap than BMW. So what? BMW makes more money, has higher revenues, produces more cars and has been in business way longer. Their sales have been growing for years. They deliver almost as many cars in a month as Tesla has in its entire existence. So what is the main point? Only in Silicon Valley do people care about "valuation". Electrek literally takes random Elon Musk tweets and writes "articles" about them. HN votes them up, while criticizing every second article as "fake news".
  - codeulike 8y ago
    Tesla's high valuation represents the hopes for its future importance. So at this point you could say the market values Tesla's future as being more important than BMWs future. And if you are ecologically minded, thats interesting.
    - whtswrong 8y ago
      >And if you are ecologically minded, thats interesting. This doesn't follow. If you were truly ecologically minded, you'd cheer on all the automakers in their move to EVs, not one in specific with a microscopic market share. BMW has more potential to shift the landscape than Tesla.
      - Arnt 8y ago
        Tesla is shifting the landscape, BMW could be. Comparing the indicative with the indicative mood isn't fair. Vapourware always/never beats what's shipping.
      - codeulike 8y ago
        Well thats true, I do want other automakers to follow. That's Tesla's stated mission actually - to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport. So perhaps this market valuation will give BMW a kick up the arse. BMW and all the other major carmakers are continually announcing how they're going to start producing loads of EVs blah blah, but its always still 'a few years away'. And seems to have been like that for a decade now. I think there is some sort of deadlock at the senior management level. Also, Tesla's market share is no longer microscopic and the likelihood is its going to continue to grow. Thats the whole point of the market valuation that this conversation we're having is about.
      - the_duke 8y ago
        Tesla has definitely given a tremendous push to the market. I highly doubt the EV efforts would be nearly as far along as they are without Tesla, and the danger that the catch-up activity by other players dies down again if Tesla goes under is very real. (until the Chinese manufacturers start tackling the European market, that is) There is nothing better to put pressure on other manufacturers than a successful EV vendor.
      - DennisP 8y ago
        Maybe, but Tesla is selling significantly more cars than BMW right now. When another automaker starts selling an all-electric lineup, I'll cheer for them as much as for Tesla.
  - arcticfox 8y ago
    > Their sales have been growing for years. Looks like they just posted a solid ~5% YoY growth for the last quarter, while TSLA posted ~125%. It's clearly an interesting difference. Valuation is the metric that summarizes all of the other metrics. https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/bamxf/fundamental/revenue-quarterly-yoy-growth https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/bamxf/fundamental/revenue-... https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/revenue-quarterly-yoy-growth https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/revenue-q...
    - Gladdyu 8y ago
      https://xkcd.com/1102/ https://xkcd.com/1102/
    - mijamo 8y ago
      Valuation does not AT ALL summarize all the other metrics. Valuation is NOT a representation of the future of even expected future of a company. I could bet on Tesla and help its value rise just because I think tomorrow other people will bet on them and so the share will rise. I could bet on Tesla because I think Softbank has way too much money and will ensure I get an nice ROI soon. I could bet on Tesla because I just see that they've been growing and think it will keep going at the same pace without issue. As long as you have people ready to buy at a higher price for whatever reason, the share will rise. And if people stop believing it will drop. Both regardless of the actual metrics behind. When Tesla gains or lose more than 10% IN A DAY, it's not because suddenly their metrics are 10% better or worse, it's just the mirror of the market's collective psychology.
      - benj111 8y ago
        While I don't disagree with you (are you not describing every bubble in history?), eventually the music will stop and any 'investor' should at least be making reasonably sure there is a seat nearby. Tesla's jump on their earnings report was as I understand it, because they made a profit. I suppose you could make a case for that increasing the 'value' much more than 10%. (although I could also take it as a signal for the end of teslas growth phase, and mark it down.) Hopefully all the different opinions average out at 'the one true answer' (tm).
Someone1234 8y ago
I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest that Electrek is part of Tesla's marketing team. In a similar way to The Verge being part of Apple's.
- webwielder2 8y ago
  The Verge are Google/Android fanboys at heart. Unclear to me how they got the iVerge moniker besides giving good scores to Apple’s objectively good devices.
  - rchaud 8y ago
    That reputation came about due to their notorious review of the Nokia Lumia 900 in 2012. The reviewer gave it lower numerical scores than the iPhone on various factors like ergonomics and camera even though the review text didn't imply that it was lower quality. That led to accusations of Apple bias, especially because of editor Topolsky's love of all things Apple back during his Engadget days. I think it's still their most-commented article ever.
- dagw 8y ago
  In a similar way to The Verge being part of Apple's ??? I read The Verge fairly regularly and can't recall them ever regularly giving undue praise to Apple. I mean if nothing else, they gave both the latest iPad and MBA a 7.5/10

jessaustin 8y ago

Nothing in TFA seems suspicious to me. The main point, at least, is easy enough to confirm. 60B > 56B. https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap https://ycharts.com/companies/BAMXF/market_cap

whtswrong 8y ago
>Nothing in TFA seems suspicious to me. I don't know about "suspicious", but what exactly is the point? Tesla, whom many consider overvalued, has a higher market cap than BMW. So what? BMW makes more money, has higher revenues, produces more cars and has been in business way longer. Their sales have been growing for years. They deliver almost as many cars in a month as Tesla has in its entire existence. So what is the main point? Only in Silicon Valley do people care about "valuation". Electrek literally takes random Elon Musk tweets and writes "articles" about them. HN votes them up, while criticizing every second article as "fake news".
- codeulike 8y ago
  Tesla's high valuation represents the hopes for its future importance. So at this point you could say the market values Tesla's future as being more important than BMWs future. And if you are ecologically minded, thats interesting.
  - whtswrong 8y ago
    >And if you are ecologically minded, thats interesting. This doesn't follow. If you were truly ecologically minded, you'd cheer on all the automakers in their move to EVs, not one in specific with a microscopic market share. BMW has more potential to shift the landscape than Tesla.
    - Arnt 8y ago
      Tesla is shifting the landscape, BMW could be. Comparing the indicative with the indicative mood isn't fair. Vapourware always/never beats what's shipping.
    - codeulike 8y ago
      Well thats true, I do want other automakers to follow. That's Tesla's stated mission actually - to accelerate the transition to sustainable transport. So perhaps this market valuation will give BMW a kick up the arse. BMW and all the other major carmakers are continually announcing how they're going to start producing loads of EVs blah blah, but its always still 'a few years away'. And seems to have been like that for a decade now. I think there is some sort of deadlock at the senior management level. Also, Tesla's market share is no longer microscopic and the likelihood is its going to continue to grow. Thats the whole point of the market valuation that this conversation we're having is about.
    - the_duke 8y ago
      Tesla has definitely given a tremendous push to the market. I highly doubt the EV efforts would be nearly as far along as they are without Tesla, and the danger that the catch-up activity by other players dies down again if Tesla goes under is very real. (until the Chinese manufacturers start tackling the European market, that is) There is nothing better to put pressure on other manufacturers than a successful EV vendor.
    - DennisP 8y ago
      Maybe, but Tesla is selling significantly more cars than BMW right now. When another automaker starts selling an all-electric lineup, I'll cheer for them as much as for Tesla.
- arcticfox 8y ago
  > Their sales have been growing for years. Looks like they just posted a solid ~5% YoY growth for the last quarter, while TSLA posted ~125%. It's clearly an interesting difference. Valuation is the metric that summarizes all of the other metrics. https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/bamxf/fundamental/revenue-quarterly-yoy-growth https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/bamxf/fundamental/revenue-... https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/revenue-quarterly-yoy-growth https://www.zacks.com/stock/chart/TSLA/fundamental/revenue-q...
  - Gladdyu 8y ago
    https://xkcd.com/1102/ https://xkcd.com/1102/
  - mijamo 8y ago
    Valuation does not AT ALL summarize all the other metrics. Valuation is NOT a representation of the future of even expected future of a company. I could bet on Tesla and help its value rise just because I think tomorrow other people will bet on them and so the share will rise. I could bet on Tesla because I think Softbank has way too much money and will ensure I get an nice ROI soon. I could bet on Tesla because I just see that they've been growing and think it will keep going at the same pace without issue. As long as you have people ready to buy at a higher price for whatever reason, the share will rise. And if people stop believing it will drop. Both regardless of the actual metrics behind. When Tesla gains or lose more than 10% IN A DAY, it's not because suddenly their metrics are 10% better or worse, it's just the mirror of the market's collective psychology.
    - benj111 8y ago
      While I don't disagree with you (are you not describing every bubble in history?), eventually the music will stop and any 'investor' should at least be making reasonably sure there is a seat nearby. Tesla's jump on their earnings report was as I understand it, because they made a profit. I suppose you could make a case for that increasing the 'value' much more than 10%. (although I could also take it as a signal for the end of teslas growth phase, and mark it down.) Hopefully all the different opinions average out at 'the one true answer' (tm).

Someone1234 8y ago

I don't think it is much of a stretch to suggest that Electrek is part of Tesla's marketing team. In a similar way to The Verge being part of Apple's.

webwielder2 8y ago
The Verge are Google/Android fanboys at heart. Unclear to me how they got the iVerge moniker besides giving good scores to Apple’s objectively good devices.
- rchaud 8y ago
  That reputation came about due to their notorious review of the Nokia Lumia 900 in 2012. The reviewer gave it lower numerical scores than the iPhone on various factors like ergonomics and camera even though the review text didn't imply that it was lower quality. That led to accusations of Apple bias, especially because of editor Topolsky's love of all things Apple back during his Engadget days. I think it's still their most-commented article ever.
dagw 8y ago
In a similar way to The Verge being part of Apple's ??? I read The Verge fairly regularly and can't recall them ever regularly giving undue praise to Apple. I mean if nothing else, they gave both the latest iPad and MBA a 7.5/10