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I think all of us (you, me, cimmanom) are assuming that cul-de-sac layouts are not urban. Due to bad navigation, I walked through a bad area of western San Fra

by burfog 8y ago

I think all of us (you, me, cimmanom) are assuming that cul-de-sac layouts are not urban. Due to bad navigation, I walked through a bad area of western San Francisco on July 4 during mid day and then again on July 5 at around 2 AM. As a non-urban person I might be clueless, but I felt a lot less terrified with the deserted streets at 2 AM. Fewer people means fewer threats. I don't assume bystanders will somehow help me. The idea that "criminals aren't going to try to break into a building if there's an audience" was proven wrong right after I left, with the Wells Fargo museum robbery happening in broad daylight with a crowd and a traffic jam.

eesmith 8y ago
I still don't know what you mean by "urban". I linked to a report concerning cul-de-sac streets in London. Do you think that I think London is not urban? I also linked to a Wikipedia page which makes an explicit connection between "suburbs", "urban planning" and culs-de-sac, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_end_(street)#Suburban_use_and_benefits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_end_(street)#Suburban_use... . No one is seriously making the absolutist argument that "criminals aren't going to try ... if there's an audience". There was a Jan. 27, 2015 Wells Fargo museum robbery in San Francisco at 2:26 a.m - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wells-fargo-museum-gold-robbers-planned-heist-cars/story?id=28558249 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wells-fargo-museum-gold-robbers-pl... . If that's the one you mean, and you believe it is a valid data point, doesn't it cast doubt on your views? For me it makes little difference, as the actual argument is one of statistics. Any one data point has little weight. The report I linked to gives those statistics, and references to similar reports.
- burfog 8y ago
  I doubt all of London is urban. There might be an absurdly expensive neighborhood that isn't. The line is blurry. Factors include a high portion of people who are dependent on landlords and public transportation, the mixing of residential with non-residential, and of course density. It certainly is possible to have a cul-de-sac that is urban.
  - eesmith 8y ago
    Let me get this straight. I linked to a report which included culs-de-sac in London, and with a map of the streets. You responded "I think all of us (you, me, cimmanom) are assuming that cul-de-sac layouts are not urban." So your belief is that I looked at a map of a part of London, assumed it was not urban, but was instead some 'absurdly expensive neighborhood that isn't urban'? I am growing more convinced that I cannot place weight on your assumptions. Which Wells Fargo museum robbery you are thinking of which took place during the day. Can you at least tell me what year it was?

by burfog 8y ago

eesmith 8y ago

I still don't know what you mean by "urban". I linked to a report concerning cul-de-sac streets in London. Do you think that I think London is not urban? I also linked to a Wikipedia page which makes an explicit connection between "suburbs", "urban planning" and culs-de-sac, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_end_(street)#Suburban_use_and_benefits https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_end_(street)#Suburban_use... . No one is seriously making the absolutist argument that "criminals aren't going to try ... if there's an audience". There was a Jan. 27, 2015 Wells Fargo museum robbery in San Francisco at 2:26 a.m - https://abcnews.go.com/US/wells-fargo-museum-gold-robbers-planned-heist-cars/story?id=28558249 https://abcnews.go.com/US/wells-fargo-museum-gold-robbers-pl... . If that's the one you mean, and you believe it is a valid data point, doesn't it cast doubt on your views? For me it makes little difference, as the actual argument is one of statistics. Any one data point has little weight. The report I linked to gives those statistics, and references to similar reports.

burfog 8y ago
I doubt all of London is urban. There might be an absurdly expensive neighborhood that isn't. The line is blurry. Factors include a high portion of people who are dependent on landlords and public transportation, the mixing of residential with non-residential, and of course density. It certainly is possible to have a cul-de-sac that is urban.
- eesmith 8y ago
  Let me get this straight. I linked to a report which included culs-de-sac in London, and with a map of the streets. You responded "I think all of us (you, me, cimmanom) are assuming that cul-de-sac layouts are not urban." So your belief is that I looked at a map of a part of London, assumed it was not urban, but was instead some 'absurdly expensive neighborhood that isn't urban'? I am growing more convinced that I cannot place weight on your assumptions. Which Wells Fargo museum robbery you are thinking of which took place during the day. Can you at least tell me what year it was?