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> “We can’t build it for the iPhone because it wouldn’t make it past the App Store approval process,” Mr. Tanjeloff said. The app is, by definition, spyware.

by alanh 16y ago

> “We can’t build it for the iPhone because it wouldn’t make it past the App Store approval process,” Mr. Tanjeloff said. The app is, by definition, spyware. It secretly, continuously forwards all SMS messages to a third party, and “there is no visible icon or shortcut to access it.” It’s like an ad for iPhone.

stevenwei 16y ago
I wonder how long it'll take for an exploit to come along that automatically installs this type of stuff on people's phones?
johnrob 16y ago
It may be spyware, but I'd still like the option of installing it if I want to. Nobody every said freedom came without flaws.
- the-kenny 16y ago
  You could install it, Android allows software installation without the Market. It should just not get distributed through the Market. It's Spyware.
- thwarted 16y ago
  It's more of a tradeoff or limit than a flaw. Flaw implies, in some sense, that flawless and perfection is possible.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
yanw 16y ago
I'm the only one who knows the password + swipe pattern to unlock my phone so I'm the only one who installs apps on it, plus all apps are listed if you decide to check your installed app inventory.
sprout 16y ago
How difficult is it to jailbreak an iPhone, install a trojan, and then make it superficially at least unjailbroken? At the least steps 1 & 2 ought to be pretty easy.
- jimbojohn 16y ago
  An up-to-date iPhone is not trivial to jailbreak, especially if it isn't yours. Jailbreaking is a specific kind of rooting. It "ought" to be virtually impossible. Then good luck hiding your trail, reassociating the Apple ID, hoping no apps broke due to the jailbreak (it's happened to me), keeping the device associated with the owner's iTunes, etc.
  - aikinai 16y ago
    There are times when jailbreaking an up-to-date iPhone is not possible, but right now the latest firmware can be rooted in a few minutes with a very simple program. It does not affect your Apple ID, iTunes association or anything other apps. It just gives you root access and installs the jailbroken app store from which you can install OpenSSH, etc. I'm not sure if there are any trojans available, but if there were, you could easily install them and then either delete the jailbroken app store or just hide it from SpringBoard. This process could easily be done in 10-15 minutes as long as you have physical access to the phone.
jamesbritt 16y ago
" It secretly, continuously forwards all SMS messages to a third party, ..." It's only secret if you're not the one who installed it. I think of spyware as apps that claim to be for one thing but instead (or also) do some remote reporting that I, as the installer, would never approve of had I known. This, though, is called Secret SMS Replicator. If I had a need to spy on my children (perhaps I was concerned over who they might be texting) this would be quite handy.
- alanh 16y ago
  It is unethical to use this software on one’s children without letting them know. Not to mention hypocritical if one’s purpose is moral instruction (in giving them a phone, its implied purpose is communication to parties of their choosing, not to someone and mom/dad; installing this software is deceitful). Some consider communication technology almost like “soft cybernetics.” By that line if thinking, secretly reading every SMS is like tapping into your children’s mind. This may be desirable but I would consider that a violation of their own right to privacy and personhood, and (mild) psychological abuse. But this whole discussion is on the usefulness of SMS forwarding, which is orthogonal to the security & privacy issues of the original article, and the implied endorsement of a quality App Store.
  - spokey 16y ago
    > It is unethical to use this software on one’s children without letting them know. I disagree. If you had written "spouse" or "significant other" or really any other adult I'd agree with you, but I don't think you can make that absolute statement when it comes to (minor) children. Letting the child know about the monitoring software would be the good and trusting thing to do, but "unethical" overstates the case significantly. I can imagine cases where it would reflect poor judgment or be inappropriate to snoop in this way, but I can readily imagine scenarios where it would be unethical NOT to secretly monitor a child's communication. Part of a parent's job is to keep their children out of trouble until the child is old enough to do that for themselves. (Another part, as you suggest, is teaching the child how to do just that.) Absolute statements about privacy kind of go out the window when you are talking about a relationship and responsibility of that nature. It is not hard to imagine a child (not every child, but certainly some, especially in the "tween" age range) that has the capacity and desire to hide some communication from his or her parents but lacking the judgment and life-skills to keep themselves safe from harm when doing so. Suppose your child is engaged in inappropriate or damaging behavior such bullying/being bullied, involved in self-harm/cutting, drug abuse, illegal activities, or things even more sinister. If your child has the desire to hide that activity from you, you could tell your child about the monitoring software but then they'll be careful to find another channel to communicate about this activity. Alternatively you could not tell them about the software and have some additional insight into their world whether they want you to have it or not. Look, it wouldn't be my first course of action, I wouldn't do it without provocation, and I would be very very careful how I made use of the information, but I wouldn't hesitate to violate my minor child's privacy if I thought it was important to protecting her well being. Monitoring text messages is nothing, I'd read her diary if necessary.
mattmcknight 16y ago
Yeah, on iPhone the spouse just needs access to your computer. http://www.iphone-sms.com/ http://www.iphone-sms.com/
- alanh 16y ago
  Well that’s certainly an eye-opening use case of that software. I understand that setting the iTunes preference “Encrypt iPhone backups” and/or not allowing your spouse to log in as you would cover stop this. And deleting SMSes before syncing would also shield them from these, I assume.

by alanh 16y ago

stevenwei 16y ago

I wonder how long it'll take for an exploit to come along that automatically installs this type of stuff on people's phones?

johnrob 16y ago

It may be spyware, but I'd still like the option of installing it if I want to. Nobody every said freedom came without flaws.

the-kenny 16y ago
You could install it, Android allows software installation without the Market. It should just not get distributed through the Market. It's Spyware.
thwarted 16y ago
It's more of a tradeoff or limit than a flaw. Flaw implies, in some sense, that flawless and perfection is possible.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

yanw 16y ago

I'm the only one who knows the password + swipe pattern to unlock my phone so I'm the only one who installs apps on it, plus all apps are listed if you decide to check your installed app inventory.

sprout 16y ago

How difficult is it to jailbreak an iPhone, install a trojan, and then make it superficially at least unjailbroken? At the least steps 1 & 2 ought to be pretty easy.

jimbojohn 16y ago
An up-to-date iPhone is not trivial to jailbreak, especially if it isn't yours. Jailbreaking is a specific kind of rooting. It "ought" to be virtually impossible. Then good luck hiding your trail, reassociating the Apple ID, hoping no apps broke due to the jailbreak (it's happened to me), keeping the device associated with the owner's iTunes, etc.
- aikinai 16y ago
  There are times when jailbreaking an up-to-date iPhone is not possible, but right now the latest firmware can be rooted in a few minutes with a very simple program. It does not affect your Apple ID, iTunes association or anything other apps. It just gives you root access and installs the jailbroken app store from which you can install OpenSSH, etc. I'm not sure if there are any trojans available, but if there were, you could easily install them and then either delete the jailbroken app store or just hide it from SpringBoard. This process could easily be done in 10-15 minutes as long as you have physical access to the phone.

jamesbritt 16y ago

" It secretly, continuously forwards all SMS messages to a third party, ..." It's only secret if you're not the one who installed it. I think of spyware as apps that claim to be for one thing but instead (or also) do some remote reporting that I, as the installer, would never approve of had I known. This, though, is called Secret SMS Replicator. If I had a need to spy on my children (perhaps I was concerned over who they might be texting) this would be quite handy.

alanh 16y ago
It is unethical to use this software on one’s children without letting them know. Not to mention hypocritical if one’s purpose is moral instruction (in giving them a phone, its implied purpose is communication to parties of their choosing, not to someone and mom/dad; installing this software is deceitful). Some consider communication technology almost like “soft cybernetics.” By that line if thinking, secretly reading every SMS is like tapping into your children’s mind. This may be desirable but I would consider that a violation of their own right to privacy and personhood, and (mild) psychological abuse. But this whole discussion is on the usefulness of SMS forwarding, which is orthogonal to the security & privacy issues of the original article, and the implied endorsement of a quality App Store.
- spokey 16y ago
  > It is unethical to use this software on one’s children without letting them know. I disagree. If you had written "spouse" or "significant other" or really any other adult I'd agree with you, but I don't think you can make that absolute statement when it comes to (minor) children. Letting the child know about the monitoring software would be the good and trusting thing to do, but "unethical" overstates the case significantly. I can imagine cases where it would reflect poor judgment or be inappropriate to snoop in this way, but I can readily imagine scenarios where it would be unethical NOT to secretly monitor a child's communication. Part of a parent's job is to keep their children out of trouble until the child is old enough to do that for themselves. (Another part, as you suggest, is teaching the child how to do just that.) Absolute statements about privacy kind of go out the window when you are talking about a relationship and responsibility of that nature. It is not hard to imagine a child (not every child, but certainly some, especially in the "tween" age range) that has the capacity and desire to hide some communication from his or her parents but lacking the judgment and life-skills to keep themselves safe from harm when doing so. Suppose your child is engaged in inappropriate or damaging behavior such bullying/being bullied, involved in self-harm/cutting, drug abuse, illegal activities, or things even more sinister. If your child has the desire to hide that activity from you, you could tell your child about the monitoring software but then they'll be careful to find another channel to communicate about this activity. Alternatively you could not tell them about the software and have some additional insight into their world whether they want you to have it or not. Look, it wouldn't be my first course of action, I wouldn't do it without provocation, and I would be very very careful how I made use of the information, but I wouldn't hesitate to violate my minor child's privacy if I thought it was important to protecting her well being. Monitoring text messages is nothing, I'd read her diary if necessary.

mattmcknight 16y ago

Yeah, on iPhone the spouse just needs access to your computer. http://www.iphone-sms.com/ http://www.iphone-sms.com/

alanh 16y ago
Well that’s certainly an eye-opening use case of that software. I understand that setting the iTunes preference “Encrypt iPhone backups” and/or not allowing your spouse to log in as you would cover stop this. And deleting SMSes before syncing would also shield them from these, I assume.