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>>> Of course, exercising, eating organic food, and pushing children to use their spare time usefully are not inherently bad things. However, they become marker

>>> Of course, exercising, eating organic food, and pushing children to use their spare time usefully are not inherently bad things. However, they become markers of bourgeois values when they are marshaled to assert one class’s moral superiority over another and to justify social inequality.<<< Is this really happening? I mean: "marshaled to assert one class’s moral superiority" is this really going on? I do know middle-class Americans from, let's call it bluntly, both the "red" and the "blue" side of the country and I don't observe this behaviour there at all. Sure, people can be proud, but trumpeting "moral superiority" because of class? Can't remember having ever seen that.

judah 8y ago
>> Is this really happening? No, of course not. Jacobin is a hard-line socialist publication. They want readers to view every aspect of life, no matter how minuscule, through the dim lens of class, gender, and race struggles.
- monadgonad 8y ago
  > dim lens of class, gender, and race struggles To call something as broad and all-pervading as "class, gender, and race struggles" a "dim lens", as if it's looking at life from the specific interest of a very small group, is laughably myopic.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    It is also myopic to have "class, gender, and race struggles" as the only lens you can view life through. I suspect that's judah's criticism of Jacobin.
    - monadgonad 8y ago
      That's a fair argument. I do think it's absolutely an appropriate lens for this issue but can see why someone like judah might find it grating.
  - judah 8y ago
    It's a dim lens because it's a poor way of looking at the world; most things in life are not class/gender/race struggles. :-) Jacobin says parents telling their children to use their time wisely is actually a class/gender/race struggle. They are seeing darkness where there is none. What a sad worldview.
pnathan 8y ago
> Is this really happening? I mean: "marshaled to assert one class’s moral superiority" is this really going on? Yeah, I've seen it, in some pockets of the US.
- Torwald 8y ago
  That's sad. What was the basis for asserting this moral superiority? (I mean the "argument", what was the thought process here?)
  - pnathan 8y ago
    example: "we eat organic, we are choosing the best for our kids, we pity the poor people who can't". it sits right on the edge of stated and unstated.
monadgonad 8y ago
Yes, it is really happening, but unless you are on the receiving end, the "morally inferior" end, you probably won't recognise it. In my workplace (in the UK, so the dynamic might be a bit different) there is a strong middle class/working class divide. The middle class people love to go on about their cycling, organic food, etc., and berate others for being "unhealthy" to feel better about their own life choices. Even though many of us from working class backgrounds eat healthily, play 5-a-side football, etc., it's not dressed up in the same way, and not used to assert superiority over the people who (regardless of class) don't exercise and eat well.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  I think "berate" is somewhat too strong of a word but the air of moral superiority is definitely there in certain contexts.
- jon-wood 8y ago
  That's wonderfully articulated. I've subconsciously seen that behaviour in workplaces for a long time, but never really noticed it as a class division thing - having read this though I can look back and see very clearly that the people constantly going on about their food/exercise/holidaying choices are very much on the middle class side of the divide.

judah 8y ago

>> Is this really happening? No, of course not. Jacobin is a hard-line socialist publication. They want readers to view every aspect of life, no matter how minuscule, through the dim lens of class, gender, and race struggles.

monadgonad 8y ago
> dim lens of class, gender, and race struggles To call something as broad and all-pervading as "class, gender, and race struggles" a "dim lens", as if it's looking at life from the specific interest of a very small group, is laughably myopic.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  It is also myopic to have "class, gender, and race struggles" as the only lens you can view life through. I suspect that's judah's criticism of Jacobin.
  - monadgonad 8y ago
    That's a fair argument. I do think it's absolutely an appropriate lens for this issue but can see why someone like judah might find it grating.
- judah 8y ago
  It's a dim lens because it's a poor way of looking at the world; most things in life are not class/gender/race struggles. :-) Jacobin says parents telling their children to use their time wisely is actually a class/gender/race struggle. They are seeing darkness where there is none. What a sad worldview.

pnathan 8y ago

> Is this really happening? I mean: "marshaled to assert one class’s moral superiority" is this really going on? Yeah, I've seen it, in some pockets of the US.

Torwald 8y ago
That's sad. What was the basis for asserting this moral superiority? (I mean the "argument", what was the thought process here?)
- pnathan 8y ago
  example: "we eat organic, we are choosing the best for our kids, we pity the poor people who can't". it sits right on the edge of stated and unstated.

monadgonad 8y ago

Yes, it is really happening, but unless you are on the receiving end, the "morally inferior" end, you probably won't recognise it. In my workplace (in the UK, so the dynamic might be a bit different) there is a strong middle class/working class divide. The middle class people love to go on about their cycling, organic food, etc., and berate others for being "unhealthy" to feel better about their own life choices. Even though many of us from working class backgrounds eat healthily, play 5-a-side football, etc., it's not dressed up in the same way, and not used to assert superiority over the people who (regardless of class) don't exercise and eat well.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
I think "berate" is somewhat too strong of a word but the air of moral superiority is definitely there in certain contexts.
jon-wood 8y ago
That's wonderfully articulated. I've subconsciously seen that behaviour in workplaces for a long time, but never really noticed it as a class division thing - having read this though I can look back and see very clearly that the people constantly going on about their food/exercise/holidaying choices are very much on the middle class side of the divide.