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This is terrible advice. You're setting a precedent right off the bat that you're just in it for the money. If someone said "hey I see that you often use recrui

This is terrible advice. You're setting a precedent right off the bat that you're just in it for the money. If someone said "hey I see that you often use recruiters, but I came to you directly, so how about you give me $10k" I'd retract my employment offer immediately.

Travis 16y ago
On the other hand, the reason it's work and they call you a professional is because you get paid. By definition. I don't see anything wrong with showing some gumption and savvy to approach directly. For one, it shows that they understand how important context is. For another, it shows that they are willing to think outside the box in order to make more money -- which is something I would really want in an employee. I'm not of the mind that addressing salary/pay first off is a bad thing. The employer already knows that you wouldn't be working for them if not for getting paid. Why should they object to sending their money to their employee rather than a third party recruiter? [sorry if this double posts, having connectivity issues. but it looks like i'm in the clear]
raganwald 16y ago
I don't understand. Nobody says you're just in it for the money, but once all other issues (competence, cultural fit, start date, location, &c.) have been agreed, isn't a candidate supposed to negotiate for the highest possible compensation in good faith? far be it from me to lecture Americans about their culture, but isn't that the American Way? Or is it really that companies pretend everyone is coming to work for the excitement of doing fun stuff and having vintage pinball machines in the lobby, while the founders of the company get rich? I'm not singling you out personally, but if anyone ever told me that the money is not supposed to matter, I'd tell them that since it doesn't matter, they can jolly-well give me what I ask.
- mattmaroon 16y ago
  Yes, negotiating is fine. No problems there, it seems from the down votes that everyone misunderstood. I wasn't suggesting that an employee has to just take what's offered or that's it. But trying to ding me for half a recruiter fee? That's just a scummy gimmick. I'd rather you just asked for $10k more in salary because you thought you were worth it. Suppose a friend said "I'm going to Outback for dinner, want to ride with me." You go with him, order the same stuff, and when you go to split the check he asks you to pay an extra $5 since he drove. You start wondering, did he just invite me to dinner to save $5? This is kinda like that. You applied to my company, I decided I wanted to hire you, and now you want me to pay you for having applied to my company directly? That's just shady. Do I even trust that you're going to remain with the company for long enough for this to be worth it for me, or do you just go around trying to ding employers for $10k? Take my word for it as someone who hires people, don't ask for a $10k bonus because you applied through the website. Ask for $10k more salary instead and explain why you're worth it.
ig1 16y ago
> you're just in it for the money Well yes it's a job. Someone will agree to do a task they wouldn't otherwise do in exchange for cash. Withdrawing a job offer because someone tries to negotiate is crazy, negotiating is just part of doing business. Proactive employees are the kind of people you want to hire, they're the people who are going to push your company forward rather than just doing the work required. Frankly I think you're crazy if you don't try to negotiate salary when you've been made a job offer, you're in a better negotiating period at that stage than you'll ever be. Often spending half an hour negotiating salary can results in a difference of thousands of dollars. When you go to buy a car do you pay sticker price or do you negotiate ? - your time is the single most expensive thing you'll ever sell. Don't make the mistake of not negotiating the best price you can for it.
ig1 16y ago
Let's keep down-voting for inappropriateness, not for when we disagree with someone. While it's clear many of us disagree with matt, it's a perfectly legitimate opinion, and we shouldn't downvote someone for that.

Travis 16y ago

On the other hand, the reason it's work and they call you a professional is because you get paid. By definition. I don't see anything wrong with showing some gumption and savvy to approach directly. For one, it shows that they understand how important context is. For another, it shows that they are willing to think outside the box in order to make more money -- which is something I would really want in an employee. I'm not of the mind that addressing salary/pay first off is a bad thing. The employer already knows that you wouldn't be working for them if not for getting paid. Why should they object to sending their money to their employee rather than a third party recruiter? [sorry if this double posts, having connectivity issues. but it looks like i'm in the clear]

raganwald 16y ago

I don't understand. Nobody says you're just in it for the money, but once all other issues (competence, cultural fit, start date, location, &c.) have been agreed, isn't a candidate supposed to negotiate for the highest possible compensation in good faith? far be it from me to lecture Americans about their culture, but isn't that the American Way? Or is it really that companies pretend everyone is coming to work for the excitement of doing fun stuff and having vintage pinball machines in the lobby, while the founders of the company get rich? I'm not singling you out personally, but if anyone ever told me that the money is not supposed to matter, I'd tell them that since it doesn't matter, they can jolly-well give me what I ask.

mattmaroon 16y ago
Yes, negotiating is fine. No problems there, it seems from the down votes that everyone misunderstood. I wasn't suggesting that an employee has to just take what's offered or that's it. But trying to ding me for half a recruiter fee? That's just a scummy gimmick. I'd rather you just asked for $10k more in salary because you thought you were worth it. Suppose a friend said "I'm going to Outback for dinner, want to ride with me." You go with him, order the same stuff, and when you go to split the check he asks you to pay an extra $5 since he drove. You start wondering, did he just invite me to dinner to save $5? This is kinda like that. You applied to my company, I decided I wanted to hire you, and now you want me to pay you for having applied to my company directly? That's just shady. Do I even trust that you're going to remain with the company for long enough for this to be worth it for me, or do you just go around trying to ding employers for $10k? Take my word for it as someone who hires people, don't ask for a $10k bonus because you applied through the website. Ask for $10k more salary instead and explain why you're worth it.

ig1 16y ago

> you're just in it for the money Well yes it's a job. Someone will agree to do a task they wouldn't otherwise do in exchange for cash. Withdrawing a job offer because someone tries to negotiate is crazy, negotiating is just part of doing business. Proactive employees are the kind of people you want to hire, they're the people who are going to push your company forward rather than just doing the work required. Frankly I think you're crazy if you don't try to negotiate salary when you've been made a job offer, you're in a better negotiating period at that stage than you'll ever be. Often spending half an hour negotiating salary can results in a difference of thousands of dollars. When you go to buy a car do you pay sticker price or do you negotiate ? - your time is the single most expensive thing you'll ever sell. Don't make the mistake of not negotiating the best price you can for it.

ig1 16y ago

Let's keep down-voting for inappropriateness, not for when we disagree with someone. While it's clear many of us disagree with matt, it's a perfectly legitimate opinion, and we shouldn't downvote someone for that.