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Considering the commercial benefits of non-AGI machine learning, the money is not really thrown away. And many of the potential negative effects of AI can occur

Considering the commercial benefits of non-AGI machine learning, the money is not really thrown away. And many of the potential negative effects of AI can occur even without AGI, so those are worth researching too.

yters 8y ago
I'd be curious to see just how large the commercial benefits of standard ML actually are. The only reason it is hyped right now is because the media is leading people to believe something close to AGI is right around the corner, because we can bruteforce Go and index a million image dataset... Anyways, all the AI/ML hype is generated not by actual commercial value, but implied AGI. So, it would behoove us to question the underlying assumption that AGI is actually possible. After all, it is the scientific thing to do.
- mycorrhizal 8y ago
  Machine learning is used widely across a huge number of industries and fields from internet search, pharmaceuticals, mining/energy, digital security, entertainment, etc... So the commercial benefits are definitely tangible and not just "media hype". On computability of intelligence. I'm not an expert on this, but many people study the dynamics of biological neural networks and can represent these dynamics as PDEs which can then be mapped to electrical circuits. Granted approximations happen along the way and it has been difficult to scale these methods to large population of neurons. It still points to a solid argument that biological neural networks can be represented on a silicon substrate. This is basically what the entire field of neuromorphic engineering is focused on.
  - yters 8y ago
    My understanding is the practical benefit of machine learning and control systems is mostly due to simple models. Not the fancy "deep" models currently in vogue. An added problem is the high dimensional models are essentially black boxes, and are probably significantly overfitting the data, hence all the adversarial type research. Why does the mapping of biological neural networks to silicon substrate imply the human mind is a computer?
    - jononor 8y ago
      Deep models on GPUs have made using machine learning on images tractable. Manufacturing is one industry which is expected to benefit a lot from this, using computer vision heavily for automation, quality control and robotics.
      - yters 8y ago
        I'd be curious to see the actual ROI on this claim.
    - stevenhuang 8y ago
      > Why does the mapping of biological neural networks to silicon substrate imply the human mind is a computer? Is this a rhetorical question or something, because it seems to me you've answered yourself there. I mean, if the mapping works, what else should it imply besides the consequent?
      - yters 8y ago
        The implication requires a further premise that the mind is reducible to the brain, which we do not know to be true.
        feanaro 8y ago
        Not just the brain, but the whole body and, even more generally, to phenomena that can be described by physics. Unless you are trying to argue for a non-physical (i.e. magical) soul, the argument is sound.
        yters 8y ago
        Right, why assume the mind reduces to physics? This is usually how people argue for AGI being inevitable, but assuming the mind reduces to physics is a big assumption. Perhaps we have a physical soul.
        8y ago

yters 8y ago

I'd be curious to see just how large the commercial benefits of standard ML actually are. The only reason it is hyped right now is because the media is leading people to believe something close to AGI is right around the corner, because we can bruteforce Go and index a million image dataset... Anyways, all the AI/ML hype is generated not by actual commercial value, but implied AGI. So, it would behoove us to question the underlying assumption that AGI is actually possible. After all, it is the scientific thing to do.

mycorrhizal 8y ago
Machine learning is used widely across a huge number of industries and fields from internet search, pharmaceuticals, mining/energy, digital security, entertainment, etc... So the commercial benefits are definitely tangible and not just "media hype". On computability of intelligence. I'm not an expert on this, but many people study the dynamics of biological neural networks and can represent these dynamics as PDEs which can then be mapped to electrical circuits. Granted approximations happen along the way and it has been difficult to scale these methods to large population of neurons. It still points to a solid argument that biological neural networks can be represented on a silicon substrate. This is basically what the entire field of neuromorphic engineering is focused on.
- yters 8y ago
  My understanding is the practical benefit of machine learning and control systems is mostly due to simple models. Not the fancy "deep" models currently in vogue. An added problem is the high dimensional models are essentially black boxes, and are probably significantly overfitting the data, hence all the adversarial type research. Why does the mapping of biological neural networks to silicon substrate imply the human mind is a computer?
  - jononor 8y ago
    Deep models on GPUs have made using machine learning on images tractable. Manufacturing is one industry which is expected to benefit a lot from this, using computer vision heavily for automation, quality control and robotics.
    - yters 8y ago
      I'd be curious to see the actual ROI on this claim.
  - stevenhuang 8y ago
    > Why does the mapping of biological neural networks to silicon substrate imply the human mind is a computer? Is this a rhetorical question or something, because it seems to me you've answered yourself there. I mean, if the mapping works, what else should it imply besides the consequent?
    - yters 8y ago
      The implication requires a further premise that the mind is reducible to the brain, which we do not know to be true.
      - feanaro 8y ago
        Not just the brain, but the whole body and, even more generally, to phenomena that can be described by physics. Unless you are trying to argue for a non-physical (i.e. magical) soul, the argument is sound.
        yters 8y ago
        Right, why assume the mind reduces to physics? This is usually how people argue for AGI being inevitable, but assuming the mind reduces to physics is a big assumption. Perhaps we have a physical soul.
        8y ago