5 ms·

the obvious follow on from that is to abolish timezones all together, all use UTS, and simply change the times we go to work to match local conditions

rtkwe 8y ago
No that's just awful, now instead of having a defined timezone boundary we have a slow bleed between different areas and we have to look up to know what a businesses hours are if we're not close enough to follow the same customary time instead of just knowing what timezone they're in. So now we're dealing with a patchwork of 'zones of similar customary times' as areas with similar solar times move towards a similar clock so businesses can coordinate and trade easily with local businesses. It'll be a mess so states will probably organize together to make things simpler and have a similar set of hours across the state. These pseudo-timezones will be slightly better and states around a similar longitude will naturally order into a similar set of customary times because their local solar times are roughly the same. Now we've got pretty much the EXACT same situation as the current timezones including a generalized offset from UTC so we gain nothing. What exactly do you suppose we gain from abolishing timezones?
- Taniwha 8y ago
  but isn't that what you have to do now, look up what timezone a business is in. The only difference with this scheme is that you don't need to convert between timezones to figure out when they're open in your timeezone I live in the southern hemisphere and 'work' online in the northern - I have to deal with the mess that is 4 different combinations of timezones every year, and calendaring systems that are unable to handle the idea of knowing WHERE a meeting is going to be held so they can get the time right Really though people should change their work hours to match their timezones - I live a long way south, we have long twilight in the summers and tiny days in the winter, when it gets dark at 4:30 because we're squashed up against a timezone boundary - I have to get up in the dark anyway, why not move our winter work hours so we get a couple of hours daylight during the winter? it would help with the Vit D issues
  - rtkwe 8y ago
    > but isn't that what you have to do now, look up what timezone a business is in. Not really I know some of our offices are in India UTC +5:30 and some are in Texas UTC -6 which are +11:30 and -1 respectively. With the current setup most timezones follow state boundaries in the US so I know when it is there roughly by the location. In the 'no timezone' setup (which is really just timezones without the top down mapping) I have to hope they have business hours posted somewhere convenient to look up instead of just finding their rough location. The rest of that sounds principally a failure of tools than anything else. Today you could just set all meeting times using UTC and let the users UI take care of the mapping to local time. But again my biggest issue with the no timezones system is we'll just be getting rid of the defined boundaries in favor of undefined boundaries because each area WILL wind up on roughly the current timezones anyways because they roughly match to solar time as is. > Really though people should change their work hours to match their timezones - I live a long way south, we have long twilight in the summers and tiny days in the winter, when it gets dark at 4:30 because we're squashed up against a timezone boundary - I have to get up in the dark anyway, why not move our winter work hours so we get a couple of hours daylight during the winter? it would help with the Vit D issues This is more an argument for more flexible working hours than most anything else.
    - Taniwha 8y ago
      Just setting up meeting times in UTC doesn't work right now if the nominal location of the meeting switches to/from daylight time (the actual UTC time changes) I think that my solution to timezones simply is "more flexible working hours"
swolchok 8y ago
"So You Want To Abolish Time Zones" (https://qntm.org/abolish https://qntm.org/abolish) has a good exploration of the issues with that.

rtkwe 8y ago

No that's just awful, now instead of having a defined timezone boundary we have a slow bleed between different areas and we have to look up to know what a businesses hours are if we're not close enough to follow the same customary time instead of just knowing what timezone they're in. So now we're dealing with a patchwork of 'zones of similar customary times' as areas with similar solar times move towards a similar clock so businesses can coordinate and trade easily with local businesses. It'll be a mess so states will probably organize together to make things simpler and have a similar set of hours across the state. These pseudo-timezones will be slightly better and states around a similar longitude will naturally order into a similar set of customary times because their local solar times are roughly the same. Now we've got pretty much the EXACT same situation as the current timezones including a generalized offset from UTC so we gain nothing. What exactly do you suppose we gain from abolishing timezones?

Taniwha 8y ago
but isn't that what you have to do now, look up what timezone a business is in. The only difference with this scheme is that you don't need to convert between timezones to figure out when they're open in your timeezone I live in the southern hemisphere and 'work' online in the northern - I have to deal with the mess that is 4 different combinations of timezones every year, and calendaring systems that are unable to handle the idea of knowing WHERE a meeting is going to be held so they can get the time right Really though people should change their work hours to match their timezones - I live a long way south, we have long twilight in the summers and tiny days in the winter, when it gets dark at 4:30 because we're squashed up against a timezone boundary - I have to get up in the dark anyway, why not move our winter work hours so we get a couple of hours daylight during the winter? it would help with the Vit D issues
- rtkwe 8y ago
  > but isn't that what you have to do now, look up what timezone a business is in. Not really I know some of our offices are in India UTC +5:30 and some are in Texas UTC -6 which are +11:30 and -1 respectively. With the current setup most timezones follow state boundaries in the US so I know when it is there roughly by the location. In the 'no timezone' setup (which is really just timezones without the top down mapping) I have to hope they have business hours posted somewhere convenient to look up instead of just finding their rough location. The rest of that sounds principally a failure of tools than anything else. Today you could just set all meeting times using UTC and let the users UI take care of the mapping to local time. But again my biggest issue with the no timezones system is we'll just be getting rid of the defined boundaries in favor of undefined boundaries because each area WILL wind up on roughly the current timezones anyways because they roughly match to solar time as is. > Really though people should change their work hours to match their timezones - I live a long way south, we have long twilight in the summers and tiny days in the winter, when it gets dark at 4:30 because we're squashed up against a timezone boundary - I have to get up in the dark anyway, why not move our winter work hours so we get a couple of hours daylight during the winter? it would help with the Vit D issues This is more an argument for more flexible working hours than most anything else.
  - Taniwha 8y ago
    Just setting up meeting times in UTC doesn't work right now if the nominal location of the meeting switches to/from daylight time (the actual UTC time changes) I think that my solution to timezones simply is "more flexible working hours"

swolchok 8y ago

"So You Want To Abolish Time Zones" (https://qntm.org/abolish https://qntm.org/abolish) has a good exploration of the issues with that.