5 ms·

Agree, sending kids to school in the dark is a pretty weak 'think of the children' argument. If we REALLY cared about children, we'd start school later as numer

by npunt 8y ago

Agree, sending kids to school in the dark is a pretty weak 'think of the children' argument. If we REALLY cared about children, we'd start school later as numerous studies show a later start is better for learning and health. See the CDC's guidelines for optimal school start times, which is 8:30am or later: https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html

rtkwe 8y ago
Then we start running into issues with the secondary/tertiary purpose of schools, daycare, which lets parents work normal 9-5 jobs more easily while having kids. If schools didn't start to 8:30-9 it'd be harder for parents to get to work.
- mullingitover 8y ago
  And there's the real issue. Not about what's best for the kids, but what's convenient for the parents.
  - hirundo 8y ago
    If the parents can't get to work by 9, don't you think their more limited job options could have a real effect on their kids?
  - theOneTrueOld 8y ago
    As a person who works in education, I feel like many decisions are made this way. It's rarely about what is best for the kids.
  - ars 8y ago
    Doesn't doing something good for the parents also help their children? I mean, it's their parents, not some random strangers.
- nrb 8y ago
  Maybe rethinking 9-5 is more productive to society than forcing everything else around it. Lots of schools start each day in the 7:00 hour.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Maybe rethinking both parents working is more productive to society. If the expectation was that one parent cared for the children and the household, that would drastically shrink the supply of workers, and force wages up, recognizing the actual, formerly unpaid cost of maintaining a household and raising children.
    - bonzini 8y ago
      And since we are at it, let's make women be the SAH parents? Seriously, that would move society 50+ years back. When there were no washing machines, vacuum cleaners, etc., maintaining a household was certainly a job for one person, but fortunately we moved past that and, at least in theory, your 46th chromosome does not affect your ability to choose a job anymore.
      - 51Cards 8y ago
        Yeah, sorry. There was nothing in there that implied gender. I know a number of people who work with children in education and there is a very clear change happening in the last 20 years with how prepared children are when starting school. The average amount of actual parenting time many children are getting now has dropped dramatically and it is showing in behavior and basic education preparedness. Of course it is the right of either parent to work but society has now made both parents working a requirement in many places, not an option... and it seems the fallout is affecting the children. If you're concerned about society then the focus needs to be on preparing the next generation better. Either you structure it so that single income families are an option, or you dump a lot more into the education system to make up for the lack of input kids are getting from their parents.
    - mamon 8y ago
      We had exactly that in 1950s, but then the feminism happened </s>
- LitFan 8y ago
  Not to mention teachers not wanting to work until 5:30 every day. Unfortunately, school starts at the time it does only to the benefit of adults, and the detriment of students.
  - gnicholas 8y ago
    IIRC, the teacher's union was one of the primary reasons that the recent bill that would have shifted school start times later was defeated.
- logfromblammo 8y ago
  There's no particular reason work should start so early, either, other than the perpetual punctuality pogrom promulgated by lark against owl.
  - leetcrew 8y ago
    idk about you, but I get to pick my hours, as long as they add up to forty. even with this freedom (and being a night owl), I find myself wanting to get to work by 9:00 anyway. any later and I just get home too late in the evening. if anything, I sometimes try to get to work half an hour to an hour early. I can't imagine there are too many parents who want to shift their schedule to get home even later.
    - dahdum 8y ago
      Given the same option I ended up with 10:30 to 7pm, but then again I don’t have kids.
  - rtkwe 8y ago
    Don't forget it's not just 9-5 office jobs that have issues with later school start times. Service jobs like restaurants/fast food are in arguably a rougher situation because they need workers when they have customers (and some time before for prep work).

by npunt 8y ago

rtkwe 8y ago

Then we start running into issues with the secondary/tertiary purpose of schools, daycare, which lets parents work normal 9-5 jobs more easily while having kids. If schools didn't start to 8:30-9 it'd be harder for parents to get to work.

mullingitover 8y ago
And there's the real issue. Not about what's best for the kids, but what's convenient for the parents.
- hirundo 8y ago
  If the parents can't get to work by 9, don't you think their more limited job options could have a real effect on their kids?
- theOneTrueOld 8y ago
  As a person who works in education, I feel like many decisions are made this way. It's rarely about what is best for the kids.
- ars 8y ago
  Doesn't doing something good for the parents also help their children? I mean, it's their parents, not some random strangers.
nrb 8y ago
Maybe rethinking 9-5 is more productive to society than forcing everything else around it. Lots of schools start each day in the 7:00 hour.
- ams6110 8y ago
  Maybe rethinking both parents working is more productive to society. If the expectation was that one parent cared for the children and the household, that would drastically shrink the supply of workers, and force wages up, recognizing the actual, formerly unpaid cost of maintaining a household and raising children.
  - bonzini 8y ago
    And since we are at it, let's make women be the SAH parents? Seriously, that would move society 50+ years back. When there were no washing machines, vacuum cleaners, etc., maintaining a household was certainly a job for one person, but fortunately we moved past that and, at least in theory, your 46th chromosome does not affect your ability to choose a job anymore.
    - 51Cards 8y ago
      Yeah, sorry. There was nothing in there that implied gender. I know a number of people who work with children in education and there is a very clear change happening in the last 20 years with how prepared children are when starting school. The average amount of actual parenting time many children are getting now has dropped dramatically and it is showing in behavior and basic education preparedness. Of course it is the right of either parent to work but society has now made both parents working a requirement in many places, not an option... and it seems the fallout is affecting the children. If you're concerned about society then the focus needs to be on preparing the next generation better. Either you structure it so that single income families are an option, or you dump a lot more into the education system to make up for the lack of input kids are getting from their parents.
  - mamon 8y ago
    We had exactly that in 1950s, but then the feminism happened </s>
LitFan 8y ago
Not to mention teachers not wanting to work until 5:30 every day. Unfortunately, school starts at the time it does only to the benefit of adults, and the detriment of students.
- gnicholas 8y ago
  IIRC, the teacher's union was one of the primary reasons that the recent bill that would have shifted school start times later was defeated.
logfromblammo 8y ago
There's no particular reason work should start so early, either, other than the perpetual punctuality pogrom promulgated by lark against owl.
- leetcrew 8y ago
  idk about you, but I get to pick my hours, as long as they add up to forty. even with this freedom (and being a night owl), I find myself wanting to get to work by 9:00 anyway. any later and I just get home too late in the evening. if anything, I sometimes try to get to work half an hour to an hour early. I can't imagine there are too many parents who want to shift their schedule to get home even later.
  - dahdum 8y ago
    Given the same option I ended up with 10:30 to 7pm, but then again I don’t have kids.
- rtkwe 8y ago
  Don't forget it's not just 9-5 office jobs that have issues with later school start times. Service jobs like restaurants/fast food are in arguably a rougher situation because they need workers when they have customers (and some time before for prep work).