5 ms·

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than th

It's not perplexing at all. People forget that the market for labor is just like other markets. If you're selling a thing and the market price is lower than the thing is worth, then you don't sell it. If the minimum wage kept up with the increase in worker productivity over the last 50 years, today's minimum wage would be about $19.50. So workers who refuse to take dead-end jobs are simply rational economic actors refusing to sell a large fraction of their existence for a pittance. If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it?

supertrope 8y ago
Cue those who want to cut minimum wage and public assistance so unemployment is even more dire.
- gwright 8y ago
  From a public policy standpoint, I think it would be better to have people at even a very low rate with public assistance as appropriate than to have people not working at all and dependent 100% on public assistance. Increasing the minimum wage results in some people getting a higher wage and other people getting $0.
ams6110 8y ago
> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it? Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you think your time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it is worth. Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not mentally or physically handicapped. You can "refuse to sell" your labor at that price, but when you have nothing in the way of skills or experience to offer, you really are just choosing to be unemployed.
- irrational 8y ago
  But, what happens where there are no workers? Everywhere I go there are signs saying help wanted. But, unemployment is practically non-existent where I live. Everyone who wants a job, has a job.
  - panarky 8y ago
    Everyone who wants a job at the wage employers are offering has a job. The unemployment rate doesn't count people who aren't looking for work. The labor force participation rate measures the percentage of the working-age population between 16 and 64 who are either working or looking for work. That's currently about 62%. If wages were higher, then more people would be willing to work.
- geezerjay 8y ago
  I would add that sometimes having skills and experience isn't enough if they are in fields that for some reason ceased to be in demand.
- panarky 8y ago
  The key point is that employers have job openings they can't fill [1]. If you are correct that other workers are willing to work that cheap, then the jobs would be filled. Workers exist but are unwilling to work that cheap, so they're idle while employers have unfilled jobs. Whenever you see a news story that says "employers having difficulties finding qualified workers," you can safely replace that phrase with "employers are unwilling to pay the market rate for labor." [1] U.S. job openings hit record high of 7.14 million https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-openings-hit-record-high-of-714-million-1646316 https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-op...
  - dleslie 8y ago
    Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_ they are unwilling to train. Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.

supertrope 8y ago

Cue those who want to cut minimum wage and public assistance so unemployment is even more dire.

gwright 8y ago
From a public policy standpoint, I think it would be better to have people at even a very low rate with public assistance as appropriate than to have people not working at all and dependent 100% on public assistance. Increasing the minimum wage results in some people getting a higher wage and other people getting $0.

ams6110 8y ago

> If employers have job openings they can't fill, while workers are idle because they won't work so cheap, then shouldn't the market-clearing wage increase? If not, what's preventing it? Other workers will work cheap. See, it doesn't matter what you think your time is worth. The supply of people willing to work is what determines what it is worth. Minimum wage jobs can literally be done by almost anyone who is not mentally or physically handicapped. You can "refuse to sell" your labor at that price, but when you have nothing in the way of skills or experience to offer, you really are just choosing to be unemployed.

irrational 8y ago
But, what happens where there are no workers? Everywhere I go there are signs saying help wanted. But, unemployment is practically non-existent where I live. Everyone who wants a job, has a job.
- panarky 8y ago
  Everyone who wants a job at the wage employers are offering has a job. The unemployment rate doesn't count people who aren't looking for work. The labor force participation rate measures the percentage of the working-age population between 16 and 64 who are either working or looking for work. That's currently about 62%. If wages were higher, then more people would be willing to work.
geezerjay 8y ago
I would add that sometimes having skills and experience isn't enough if they are in fields that for some reason ceased to be in demand.
panarky 8y ago
The key point is that employers have job openings they can't fill [1]. If you are correct that other workers are willing to work that cheap, then the jobs would be filled. Workers exist but are unwilling to work that cheap, so they're idle while employers have unfilled jobs. Whenever you see a news story that says "employers having difficulties finding qualified workers," you can safely replace that phrase with "employers are unwilling to pay the market rate for labor." [1] U.S. job openings hit record high of 7.14 million https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-openings-hit-record-high-of-714-million-1646316 https://www.investing.com/news/economic-indicators/us-job-op...
- dleslie 8y ago
  Indeed; they're either unwilling to pay the market rate for the labour _or_ they are unwilling to train. Any time an employer states that they cannot find a _suitable_ candidate for a position it is an admission that they are unwilling to train.