4 ms·

What's the most impressive placebo effect recorded in a study? Is it always limited to mild pain relief? For stories like this, people always predictably discu

What's the most impressive placebo effect recorded in a study? Is it always limited to mild pain relief? For stories like this, people always predictably discuss how ethical it is for doctors to knowingly prescribe placebos for stories and how different interventions have different impacts. If placebo alone can't cure anything and only gives mild pain relief, I'm surprised nobody mentions it's overhyped.

pfortuny 8y ago
I'd say this is really impressive: sham surgery on the meniscus. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-a-placebo/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-...
- seanwilson 8y ago
  > Arthroscopic knee surgery has been a common orthopedic procedure in the United States, with about 692,000 of them performed in 2010,2 but the procedure has proven no better than a sham when done to address degenerative wear and tear, particularly on the meniscus. Isn't this just showing the supposed real surgery doesn't work? I don't see how this is showing placebo has an impressive effect.
  - meowface 8y ago
    It shows both.
kevinmchugh 8y ago
I'm still reading the submitted article, but with the many relevant useful comments of `tokenadult in mind: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=author:tokenadult%20placebo https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=... > Placebo effects are strongest for patient self-reported subjective symptoms (classically, pain) and weakest for objective clinical signs measured by experienced observers.
- seanwilson 8y ago
  Do you have a specific example of a very strong placebo effect though that's beyond patients reporting mild pain relief? My point is people seem to discuss placebo with an implied assumption that the effect is so big it's worth e.g. discussing the ethics of prescribing it. If it's only giving mild pain relief I don't see why it's that interesting.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    All of Homeopathy? It operates on the principle that a cold when untreated will last 2 weeks, but with placebos will only take 14 days.
    - aagha 8y ago
      Ugh. It's so disappointing to see this comment from someone who clearly didn't read the article. And you're misrepresenting Homeopathy--that's not the principle on which it operates.
bookofjoe 8y ago
For my money, the most impressive placebo effect ever is the purported improvement in athletic performance using Breathe Right Nasal Strips. The inventors have made many millions of dollars by cleverly repackaging and reframing adhesive tape. See, for example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980609080557.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980609080557.h...
- tlrobinson 8y ago
  That’s not the placebo effect if it doesn’t actually improve performance... it’s just delusion.
raincom 8y ago
Pseudo pregnancy, where mind plays tricks, producing all pregnancy symptoms. Even transexuals get it.
- Raphmedia 8y ago
  > Even transexuals get it. To be honest, we are actively hacking our body when using hormone replacement therapy. Strange things are bound to happen. Skipping a dose of estrogen can trick the body into triggering PMS like symptoms, etc.
lishzen 8y ago
Non medical placebo effect? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845699/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845699/
oldgradstudent 8y ago
The most impressive placebo effect is it's effect on placebo researchers and science writers.

pfortuny 8y ago

I'd say this is really impressive: sham surgery on the meniscus. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-a-placebo/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/surgery-is-one-hell-of-...

seanwilson 8y ago
> Arthroscopic knee surgery has been a common orthopedic procedure in the United States, with about 692,000 of them performed in 2010,2 but the procedure has proven no better than a sham when done to address degenerative wear and tear, particularly on the meniscus. Isn't this just showing the supposed real surgery doesn't work? I don't see how this is showing placebo has an impressive effect.
- meowface 8y ago
  It shows both.

kevinmchugh 8y ago

I'm still reading the submitted article, but with the many relevant useful comments of `tokenadult in mind: https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=0&dateRange=all&type=comment&query=author:tokenadult%20placebo https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byPopularity&prefix=false&page=... > Placebo effects are strongest for patient self-reported subjective symptoms (classically, pain) and weakest for objective clinical signs measured by experienced observers.

seanwilson 8y ago
Do you have a specific example of a very strong placebo effect though that's beyond patients reporting mild pain relief? My point is people seem to discuss placebo with an implied assumption that the effect is so big it's worth e.g. discussing the ethics of prescribing it. If it's only giving mild pain relief I don't see why it's that interesting.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  All of Homeopathy? It operates on the principle that a cold when untreated will last 2 weeks, but with placebos will only take 14 days.
  - aagha 8y ago
    Ugh. It's so disappointing to see this comment from someone who clearly didn't read the article. And you're misrepresenting Homeopathy--that's not the principle on which it operates.

bookofjoe 8y ago

For my money, the most impressive placebo effect ever is the purported improvement in athletic performance using Breathe Right Nasal Strips. The inventors have made many millions of dollars by cleverly repackaging and reframing adhesive tape. See, for example: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980609080557.htm https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/06/980609080557.h...

tlrobinson 8y ago
That’s not the placebo effect if it doesn’t actually improve performance... it’s just delusion.

raincom 8y ago

Pseudo pregnancy, where mind plays tricks, producing all pregnancy symptoms. Even transexuals get it.

Raphmedia 8y ago
> Even transexuals get it. To be honest, we are actively hacking our body when using hormone replacement therapy. Strange things are bound to happen. Skipping a dose of estrogen can trick the body into triggering PMS like symptoms, etc.

lishzen 8y ago

Non medical placebo effect? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845699/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845699/

oldgradstudent 8y ago

The most impressive placebo effect is it's effect on placebo researchers and science writers.