4 ms·

> You are, at your basest existence, the ability to choose. A choice engine with a physical layer; a physical memory, physical emotion, the ability to think. Bu

> You are, at your basest existence, the ability to choose. A choice engine with a physical layer; a physical memory, physical emotion, the ability to think. But at your foundation, you choose. I don't see how this is at odds with the prior state view. You are a state machine. As time moves, you have no choice but to choose, and this is entirely dependent on your previous state and your current environment. The physical layer is the choice engine, and it physically must continue to make choices until it is incapacitated or dies. You are a state machine that must step through its state transitions to the beat of the universe, navigating your small corner of it, enjoying the ride (or not), until you cease to function, and the state machine of the universe runs on without you.

all2 8y ago
> You are a state machine. As time moves, you have no choice but to choose, and this is entirely dependent on your previous state and your current environment. This makes sense. There's no choice unless there's a dimension (some state variable) that can we can move in. We have stuff that can be state (matter and energy) and dimension (time) to move in. In terms of state, my argument is that choice is a core piece of 'me' and 'you'. I don't know how to make an effective argument for the separateness of choice and state, but I think it makes sense to consider them as separate things. We possess state like we possess the space we exist in, in time. You could say that your choices are like driving a car. Navigating streets (or offroad!) is like choosing from possible states.
- sooheon 8y ago
  I think we're in agreement, except that I believe that whatever capacity you have for choice is also stored as state. What you call state and choice, I might call state and procedures. Both are stored in the substrate of the brain as state, just like data structures and the code that operates on them are both stored as data.
tylerjwilk00 8y ago
Even if it is correct to say that, "You are a state machine." and "prior state" is an input to the state generation function of the machine, this is _not_ incompatible with free will, and does _not_ require a pre-determined universe. Simply put, current state as an input does not necessitate pre-determination. I think the point user all2 was making is that if we remove the prior state modifier from the generate state function then the core piece that is left over is "your basest existence".
- sooheon 8y ago
  I agree pre-determination is orthogonal to the question. If the state machine has a truly random component, pre-determination goes out the window. > [...] if we remove the prior state modifier from the generate state function then the core piece that is left over is "your basest existence". I think removing the prior state modifier leaves you with nothing. A brain with no prior state is a brain with absolutely no memories, knowledge, or stored procedures. Even if such a brain were possible to construct, plasticity would ensure that unless it was dead, it would immediately begin accumulating prior state with which to make subsequent choices.

all2 8y ago

> You are a state machine. As time moves, you have no choice but to choose, and this is entirely dependent on your previous state and your current environment. This makes sense. There's no choice unless there's a dimension (some state variable) that can we can move in. We have stuff that can be state (matter and energy) and dimension (time) to move in. In terms of state, my argument is that choice is a core piece of 'me' and 'you'. I don't know how to make an effective argument for the separateness of choice and state, but I think it makes sense to consider them as separate things. We possess state like we possess the space we exist in, in time. You could say that your choices are like driving a car. Navigating streets (or offroad!) is like choosing from possible states.

sooheon 8y ago
I think we're in agreement, except that I believe that whatever capacity you have for choice is also stored as state. What you call state and choice, I might call state and procedures. Both are stored in the substrate of the brain as state, just like data structures and the code that operates on them are both stored as data.

tylerjwilk00 8y ago

Even if it is correct to say that, "You are a state machine." and "prior state" is an input to the state generation function of the machine, this is _not_ incompatible with free will, and does _not_ require a pre-determined universe. Simply put, current state as an input does not necessitate pre-determination. I think the point user all2 was making is that if we remove the prior state modifier from the generate state function then the core piece that is left over is "your basest existence".

sooheon 8y ago
I agree pre-determination is orthogonal to the question. If the state machine has a truly random component, pre-determination goes out the window. > [...] if we remove the prior state modifier from the generate state function then the core piece that is left over is "your basest existence". I think removing the prior state modifier leaves you with nothing. A brain with no prior state is a brain with absolutely no memories, knowledge, or stored procedures. Even if such a brain were possible to construct, plasticity would ensure that unless it was dead, it would immediately begin accumulating prior state with which to make subsequent choices.