6 ms·

Cul-de-sacs decrease criminality too. If you go down a cul-de-sacs to do recon, you look out of place.

eesmith 8y ago
The Wikipedia page has several paragraphs on "this disputed issue", describing both pro- and con- views. One cited paper concludes "relative affluence and the number of neighbours has a greater effect than either being on a cul-de-sac or being on a through street".
- beaconstudios 8y ago
  so if living on a cul-de-sac predicts for relative affluence, it may be a proxy for lower crime?
  - eesmith 8y ago
    ... no? At least, that's not what I inferred from the Wikipedia article. If you want to dig into the details, the report is at https://spacesyntax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Hillier-Sahbaz_An-evidence-based-approach_010408.pdf https://spacesyntax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Hillier-S... . A quick search finds the following in the conclusion section: > Cul de sacs or grids? > The principle that larger the numbers of dwellings on the street segment reduces the risk of burglary, applies both to cul de sacs and grid like layouts. Small number of dwellings in a cul de sac are vulnerable, especially if the dwelling are affluent.
cimmanom 8y ago
That doesn't compute for me - at least not in an urban environment. You're safest on the street where there are the most people; and criminals aren't going to try to break into a building if there's an audience. High foot traffic leads to safe cities. Cul-de-sacs discourage foot traffic.
- burfog 8y ago
  That is a 100% urban mindset. I can't even imagine thinking that way. Other people find urban areas terrifying because each person present increases the threat. Crowds mean pickpockets and sometimes riots. Every person must be watched, and this is incredibly stressful. It's constant preparation for a fight-or-flight response. The non-urban mindset feels much safer with completely empty streets. The next best thing would be just cars.
  - gowld 8y ago
    That is a 100% male driver mindset. A female mindset on a deserted road is constant preparation for assault. A bicyclist or pedestrian on a road full of cars is in constant preparation for a collision.
    - burfog 8y ago
      No. Being female only changes the nature of likely threats, slightly. Assume the example person is walking. Fear of crowds is the norm for people with a rural/suburban mindset. Evidently, people with an urban mindset actually feel safer in crowds, which is difficult for me to wrap my head around. The deserted road is safe, aside from wild animals. In a crowd, the more extreme rural/suburban people would be keeping their hand near a concealed weapon. I suppose this feeling might be alien to a person accustomed to city life. The above plays a role in the fact that rural/suburban people without jobs are often hesitant to move to cities. The stress would take a toll on such people.
      - cimmanom 8y ago
        You’d keep a hand on a firearm just because here are 3-5 other people on the same 250-foot long stretch of concrete? That’s the most antisocial thing I’ve ever heard. And yeah, that would make it unsafe.
        eesmith 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure that "the more extreme rural/suburban people would be keeping their hand near a concealed weapon" does not include black rural farmers visiting the big city.

The Wikipedia page has several paragraphs on "this disputed issue", describing both pro- and con- views. One cited paper concludes "relative affluence and the number of neighbours has a greater effect than either being on a cul-de-sac or being on a through street".

beaconstudios 8y ago
so if living on a cul-de-sac predicts for relative affluence, it may be a proxy for lower crime?
- eesmith 8y ago
  ... no? At least, that's not what I inferred from the Wikipedia article. If you want to dig into the details, the report is at https://spacesyntax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Hillier-Sahbaz_An-evidence-based-approach_010408.pdf https://spacesyntax.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Hillier-S... . A quick search finds the following in the conclusion section: > Cul de sacs or grids? > The principle that larger the numbers of dwellings on the street segment reduces the risk of burglary, applies both to cul de sacs and grid like layouts. Small number of dwellings in a cul de sac are vulnerable, especially if the dwelling are affluent.

cimmanom 8y ago

That doesn't compute for me - at least not in an urban environment. You're safest on the street where there are the most people; and criminals aren't going to try to break into a building if there's an audience. High foot traffic leads to safe cities. Cul-de-sacs discourage foot traffic.

burfog 8y ago
That is a 100% urban mindset. I can't even imagine thinking that way. Other people find urban areas terrifying because each person present increases the threat. Crowds mean pickpockets and sometimes riots. Every person must be watched, and this is incredibly stressful. It's constant preparation for a fight-or-flight response. The non-urban mindset feels much safer with completely empty streets. The next best thing would be just cars.
- gowld 8y ago
  That is a 100% male driver mindset. A female mindset on a deserted road is constant preparation for assault. A bicyclist or pedestrian on a road full of cars is in constant preparation for a collision.
  - burfog 8y ago
    No. Being female only changes the nature of likely threats, slightly. Assume the example person is walking. Fear of crowds is the norm for people with a rural/suburban mindset. Evidently, people with an urban mindset actually feel safer in crowds, which is difficult for me to wrap my head around. The deserted road is safe, aside from wild animals. In a crowd, the more extreme rural/suburban people would be keeping their hand near a concealed weapon. I suppose this feeling might be alien to a person accustomed to city life. The above plays a role in the fact that rural/suburban people without jobs are often hesitant to move to cities. The stress would take a toll on such people.
    - cimmanom 8y ago
      You’d keep a hand on a firearm just because here are 3-5 other people on the same 250-foot long stretch of concrete? That’s the most antisocial thing I’ve ever heard. And yeah, that would make it unsafe.
      - eesmith 8y ago
        I'm pretty sure that "the more extreme rural/suburban people would be keeping their hand near a concealed weapon" does not include black rural farmers visiting the big city.