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For me, the whole aspect on which the EU is a no-brainer is peace, and leverage against powerful lunatics and maniacs, like Trump and Putin. Which is precisely

by flosim 8y ago

For me, the whole aspect on which the EU is a no-brainer is peace, and leverage against powerful lunatics and maniacs, like Trump and Putin. Which is precisely why the latter is hell-bent on dismantling it. Not from the economical standpoint.

ionised 8y ago
I don't think the the people who value their ideology more than pragmatism are concerned with peace to be honest.
- flosim 8y ago
  To be honest, it's not about what people value. It's about what we have in practice. There hasn't been a war between EU countries for a while now, and that's something that I appreciate, given our history. Sure, you could argue that nuclear dissuasion is the reason why, but we don't even have any kind of cold war going on either, and I think the EU is to thank for that. What's really good is that this creates a system where it's not only nonexistent, but it's also not even possible at all. It's like what Typescript/a linter does to Javascript: the EU greatly discourages entire classes of problems threatening the life/well-being of its citizens. The leverage against foreign countries is a real pragmatic thing, though, not some ideology. Why else do you think Trump celebrated Brexit, and actively tries to break up different unions that we've spent years building, like NATO? I'm not saying that he's the devil, even though I'm not a big fan, but I understand that he's doing it to have his way with less opposition. Divide and conquer?
- slededit 8y ago
  Was it wrong for the parliamentarians to fight the royalists in the first English civil war? Many lives were lost but the foundations of democracy were set and the monarchy weakened. The pragmatic view would have been to maintain the status quo that had worked for hundreds of years rather than the uncertainty of war. Every person has their breaking point where mere pragmatism no longer holds sway. Peace, but at what cost?

by flosim 8y ago

ionised 8y ago

I don't think the the people who value their ideology more than pragmatism are concerned with peace to be honest.

flosim 8y ago
To be honest, it's not about what people value. It's about what we have in practice. There hasn't been a war between EU countries for a while now, and that's something that I appreciate, given our history. Sure, you could argue that nuclear dissuasion is the reason why, but we don't even have any kind of cold war going on either, and I think the EU is to thank for that. What's really good is that this creates a system where it's not only nonexistent, but it's also not even possible at all. It's like what Typescript/a linter does to Javascript: the EU greatly discourages entire classes of problems threatening the life/well-being of its citizens. The leverage against foreign countries is a real pragmatic thing, though, not some ideology. Why else do you think Trump celebrated Brexit, and actively tries to break up different unions that we've spent years building, like NATO? I'm not saying that he's the devil, even though I'm not a big fan, but I understand that he's doing it to have his way with less opposition. Divide and conquer?
slededit 8y ago
Was it wrong for the parliamentarians to fight the royalists in the first English civil war? Many lives were lost but the foundations of democracy were set and the monarchy weakened. The pragmatic view would have been to maintain the status quo that had worked for hundreds of years rather than the uncertainty of war. Every person has their breaking point where mere pragmatism no longer holds sway. Peace, but at what cost?