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especially if those astronomers live in nearby systems, such as around Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to Earth, or TRAPPIST-1, a star about 40 light-years a

especially if those astronomers live in nearby systems, such as around Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to Earth, or TRAPPIST-1, a star about 40 light-years away that hosts seven exoplanets, three of which are potentially habitable. If the signal is spotted from either of these nearby systems, the study finds, the same megawatt laser could be used to send a brief message in the form of pulses similar to Morse code. “If we were to successfully close a handshake and start to communicate, we could flash a message, at a data rate of about a few hundred bits per second, which would get there in just a few years,” 40 light years in "just a few years"? So this laser beam travels faster than the speed of light? In any case, I don't open my front door and flash my lights to invite strangers off the street, and I don't think we should be doing the same thing to strangers from outer space, you never know if it's an interstellar axe murderer and if they meet us at our planet, then they are already known to be far more technologically advanced than we are so there's nothing we can do to stop them.

devoply 8y ago
I would venture a guess that all so-called intelligent life seeks make use of anything that it can get its hands on and order it according to its will. If this is true, then you really don't ever want to meet other intelligent life. At best they would integrate you into their economic system, just like we integrate people with lower intelligence into our economic system... or underdeveloped countries for that matter. A bit worse would be making us into slaves, which might appeal to their humanity. Most likely is simply to eliminate us and take the planet for their own colony and keep us as pets.
- ams6110 8y ago
  If there is life in the Proxima Centauri system, and it has the technological capability to get to the Earth, I think they already know about us.
  - sean2 8y ago
    Serious question: how could they already know about us? Are you simply assuming they have advanced signal detection technologies that match their space fairing capability?
    - ALittleLight 8y ago
      Perhaps they periodically send probes like Oumuamua that report on nearby systems.
    - resu_nimda 8y ago
      We can observe a lot more in the cosmos than we can physically reach. We are mapping out and tracking far more stars and planets than we could hope to reach for a long time. Even within our solar system, we have gained and will gain much knowledge of the outer planets from probes well before we set foot on them. I would expect this property to hold for other civilizations, it's just much easier to observe far away things than to transport complex life forms to them.
- JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
  That’s a closed minded view of intelligence. There’s a level above exploitation where you value other intelligent life and cherish it.
  - true_tuna 8y ago
    I haven’t seen much of that from available examples.
  - devoply 8y ago
    Humans cherish their pets. Aliens will cherish humans. Can intelligent life however leave things that they know about alone to do as it wishes without any interference whatsoever? No. In the short term maybe, but in the long term it's impossible. Why? Because either it's under control or it's a threat. Either you are a beast, in which case you become a beast of burden. Or you a barbarian, in which case you should be subdued. Or you are an ally in which case you must be integrated. Or you are food which must be farmed and eaten. Heck maybe in the long run aliens have more to fear from humans than humans have to fear from aliens. But it's not going to end well for one of them in the long run.
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      Humans cherish their pets. Aliens will cherish humans Who says they'll see us as pets? Humans also gather horseshoe crabs by the thousands and suck the blood out of them ("only" killing 10 - 30% of them) https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/how-horseshoe-crab-blood-saves-millions-lives/ https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/how-horseshoe-... Let's hope human blood isn't useful to the aliens.
  - ridgeguy 8y ago
    >There’s a level above exploitation where you value other intelligent life and cherish it. That sounds like a hope/belief, not a fact. There may be levels of regard for intelligence that are below pets. See, for example, "To Serve Man". [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man edit for misspelling
  - 8y ago
- njarboe 8y ago
  I like the idea that when an old and powerful Galaxy ranging alien race discovers a planet that has life, they place that solar system off limits to any settlement and only observations are allowed. It does not seem that unlikely, unless life is just not rare at all. If 1 in 1000 or 1 in 100 or even 1 in 10 systems were set aside in this way, that would leave plenty of solar systems to continue to expand into. In the US, we got rich and powerful enough around the 1880's that nature was basically conquered and we wanted to start preserving places for their natural beauty. By the 1970's we had set aside huge amounts of land for National Parks, State Parks and wilderness areas. Wilderness areas alone in the lower 48 is about 64.4 million acres, or about the same as cities and towns (urban areas are 69.4 million acres)[1]. [1]https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/
scott113341 8y ago
> such as around Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to Earth, or TRAPPIST-1, a star about 40 light-years away... I don't think they are asserting that the laser beam travels faster than the speed of light. I think they are referring to Proxima Centauri being about 4 light-years away from Earth [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri
- Johnny555 8y ago
  That may be what they meant, but that's not what they said, they mentioned 2 systems, one is 40 light years away, and said "...If the signal is spotted from either of these nearby systems..."
  - jessaustin 8y ago
    They're talking about interstellar communication, not how long you've lived in your house. 40 years is just a few years.
    - Johnny555 8y ago
      "Few" has a specific meaning when applied to something countable. 40 is not "a few" in any common use of the word. You don't say "It took the settlers 180 days to ride a wagon across the country, but today it only takes a few hours to drive across the country" when you meant "40 hours". If you want to use "few", you'd use a different unit like "and now it only takes a few days". Or "And you can send a signal to that star system in a few decades".
      - jessaustin 8y ago
        Your example sort of fell apart there. It took 180 days at some hypothetical moment in history. Now it takes a few days. There are a few words in English the meaning of which is absolute, regardless of context. "Few" is not among those words.
        8y ago

devoply 8y ago

I would venture a guess that all so-called intelligent life seeks make use of anything that it can get its hands on and order it according to its will. If this is true, then you really don't ever want to meet other intelligent life. At best they would integrate you into their economic system, just like we integrate people with lower intelligence into our economic system... or underdeveloped countries for that matter. A bit worse would be making us into slaves, which might appeal to their humanity. Most likely is simply to eliminate us and take the planet for their own colony and keep us as pets.

ams6110 8y ago
If there is life in the Proxima Centauri system, and it has the technological capability to get to the Earth, I think they already know about us.
- sean2 8y ago
  Serious question: how could they already know about us? Are you simply assuming they have advanced signal detection technologies that match their space fairing capability?
  - ALittleLight 8y ago
    Perhaps they periodically send probes like Oumuamua that report on nearby systems.
  - resu_nimda 8y ago
    We can observe a lot more in the cosmos than we can physically reach. We are mapping out and tracking far more stars and planets than we could hope to reach for a long time. Even within our solar system, we have gained and will gain much knowledge of the outer planets from probes well before we set foot on them. I would expect this property to hold for other civilizations, it's just much easier to observe far away things than to transport complex life forms to them.
JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
That’s a closed minded view of intelligence. There’s a level above exploitation where you value other intelligent life and cherish it.
- true_tuna 8y ago
  I haven’t seen much of that from available examples.
- devoply 8y ago
  Humans cherish their pets. Aliens will cherish humans. Can intelligent life however leave things that they know about alone to do as it wishes without any interference whatsoever? No. In the short term maybe, but in the long term it's impossible. Why? Because either it's under control or it's a threat. Either you are a beast, in which case you become a beast of burden. Or you a barbarian, in which case you should be subdued. Or you are an ally in which case you must be integrated. Or you are food which must be farmed and eaten. Heck maybe in the long run aliens have more to fear from humans than humans have to fear from aliens. But it's not going to end well for one of them in the long run.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    Humans cherish their pets. Aliens will cherish humans Who says they'll see us as pets? Humans also gather horseshoe crabs by the thousands and suck the blood out of them ("only" killing 10 - 30% of them) https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/how-horseshoe-crab-blood-saves-millions-lives/ https://www.iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/how-horseshoe-... Let's hope human blood isn't useful to the aliens.
- ridgeguy 8y ago
  >There’s a level above exploitation where you value other intelligent life and cherish it. That sounds like a hope/belief, not a fact. There may be levels of regard for intelligence that are below pets. See, for example, "To Serve Man". [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man edit for misspelling
- 8y ago
njarboe 8y ago
I like the idea that when an old and powerful Galaxy ranging alien race discovers a planet that has life, they place that solar system off limits to any settlement and only observations are allowed. It does not seem that unlikely, unless life is just not rare at all. If 1 in 1000 or 1 in 100 or even 1 in 10 systems were set aside in this way, that would leave plenty of solar systems to continue to expand into. In the US, we got rich and powerful enough around the 1880's that nature was basically conquered and we wanted to start preserving places for their natural beauty. By the 1970's we had set aside huge amounts of land for National Parks, State Parks and wilderness areas. Wilderness areas alone in the lower 48 is about 64.4 million acres, or about the same as cities and towns (urban areas are 69.4 million acres)[1]. [1]https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-us-land-use/

scott113341 8y ago

> such as around Proxima Centauri, the nearest star to Earth, or TRAPPIST-1, a star about 40 light-years away... I don't think they are asserting that the laser beam travels faster than the speed of light. I think they are referring to Proxima Centauri being about 4 light-years away from Earth [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri

Johnny555 8y ago
That may be what they meant, but that's not what they said, they mentioned 2 systems, one is 40 light years away, and said "...If the signal is spotted from either of these nearby systems..."
- jessaustin 8y ago
  They're talking about interstellar communication, not how long you've lived in your house. 40 years is just a few years.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    "Few" has a specific meaning when applied to something countable. 40 is not "a few" in any common use of the word. You don't say "It took the settlers 180 days to ride a wagon across the country, but today it only takes a few hours to drive across the country" when you meant "40 hours". If you want to use "few", you'd use a different unit like "and now it only takes a few days". Or "And you can send a signal to that star system in a few decades".
    - jessaustin 8y ago
      Your example sort of fell apart there. It took 180 days at some hypothetical moment in history. Now it takes a few days. There are a few words in English the meaning of which is absolute, regardless of context. "Few" is not among those words.
      - 8y ago