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It's amazing how times change. Just a few years ago, the Boy Scouts wouldn't allow gay kids to join (2013) and wouldn't allow gay leaders (2015). Back then, p

by mdasen 8y ago

It's amazing how times change. Just a few years ago, the Boy Scouts wouldn't allow gay kids to join (2013) and wouldn't allow gay leaders (2015). Back then, people were applauding the Girl Scouts for their progressive stance on gay rights and transgender youths. Today, the Boy Scouts are leaning into a more gender-neutral membership. Ultimately, I think the Girl Scouts are worried about their membership. If Scouts BSA accepts all applicants while they only accept girls, Scouts BSA is likely to carve out a bunch of their membership. When men's colleges went co-ed, it didn't really threaten women's colleges because the formerly men's colleges couldn't just grow their membership. They had limited classroom space, limited dorms, etc. However, with less fixed infrastructure, Scouts BSA could absorb a lot of the Girl Scouts membership. Personally, I think there is room for multiple gender-neutral youth organizations with different ranges of activities. However, it will mean that organizations must provide a positive reason for people to want to join rather than the negative "you aren't allowed in the other club".

taeric 8y ago
You should read the article. The concern is less over them taking in girls, but in doing so and assuming the name "scout". Sending fliers to young families with "join the scouts" and not being honest that they are joining a different organization than the Girl Scounts is... slimy. At best. Your history just adds to the feel that this is being done entirely as a somewhat "below the water" way to up the BSA membership. They got a tarnished name for a while, so now it looks like they are trying to wash some of their garbage with the reputation of the Girl Scouts.
SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago
I also came here with a similar sentiment that I was expecting would be echoed by someone else in this thread. As an Eagle Scout who participated in a co-ed Venture Crew, I think it’s a good step forward for the BSA organization. People in the thread have mentioned some possible issues with co-Ed integration, and while it has its issues, I firmly believe on the whole that it’s a net good for the organization. I won’t speak for the plight of the Girl Scouts organization, who undoubtedly has done a lot of good and has always been the more progressive of the two organizations, but I can at least say that the BSA has done decently well to adapt to the current times given the immense sort of political pressures they have been under over the past 50 years. I have a lot of value and memories of my time in the Scouts and given the changes they have implemented after various scandals over the years I can confidently say that they are at least interested in fixing long running issues unlike other organizations such as the Catholic Church who are more willing to ostrich-head-in-the-sand away something when nastiness emerges.
- taeric 8y ago
  Comparing to the church is.... Interesting. Aren't the boy scouts more associated with the church? More to the point, if they really want to embrace change, embrace their name. Don't dilute it to a generic one that also has reputation with another organisation. I say that as someone that believes in redemption. Hiding behind another banner doesn't strike as redemptive behaviour. :( Edit: similarly, deceptive tactics such as pretending this is about something other than the name dilution doesn't scream good faith.
  - leejoramo 8y ago
    Boy Scout Tripp’s are often (usually?) Sponsored by a local religious organization. They do have other types of sponsors such as civic organizations. My troop in the 1980s was sponsored by the local Lions Club. The local troops can have very different attitudes about beliefs in god (or the lack of), sexual orientation, the environment, etc
    - taeric 8y ago
      Right. And I don't mean that to be a damning claim on my part. Large organizations love hiding behind the claims that most local branches are not corrupt/outdated/whatever. And to a large extent, I agree with that. A problem, is this can essentially be seen as enabling the so called "fat cats" at the top to hide their hypocrisies behind the local orgs. That is, it is an incredibly enabling behavior. And I view it as basically equivalent between the two. (Of course, there is also the direct comparison that many of the boy scout troops were directly working with and benefiting from the organization called out as "having their heads in the sand.")
ycombobreaker 8y ago
The current rules in cub scouts require separate dens for boys and girls. IMHO this is a sort of "separate but equal" treatment that barricades girls from joining (because it requires additional volunteer leadership and critical mass of youth membership), and would have to change before it becomes a credible threat.

by mdasen 8y ago

taeric 8y ago

You should read the article. The concern is less over them taking in girls, but in doing so and assuming the name "scout". Sending fliers to young families with "join the scouts" and not being honest that they are joining a different organization than the Girl Scounts is... slimy. At best. Your history just adds to the feel that this is being done entirely as a somewhat "below the water" way to up the BSA membership. They got a tarnished name for a while, so now it looks like they are trying to wash some of their garbage with the reputation of the Girl Scouts.

SOLAR_FIELDS 8y ago

I also came here with a similar sentiment that I was expecting would be echoed by someone else in this thread. As an Eagle Scout who participated in a co-ed Venture Crew, I think it’s a good step forward for the BSA organization. People in the thread have mentioned some possible issues with co-Ed integration, and while it has its issues, I firmly believe on the whole that it’s a net good for the organization. I won’t speak for the plight of the Girl Scouts organization, who undoubtedly has done a lot of good and has always been the more progressive of the two organizations, but I can at least say that the BSA has done decently well to adapt to the current times given the immense sort of political pressures they have been under over the past 50 years. I have a lot of value and memories of my time in the Scouts and given the changes they have implemented after various scandals over the years I can confidently say that they are at least interested in fixing long running issues unlike other organizations such as the Catholic Church who are more willing to ostrich-head-in-the-sand away something when nastiness emerges.

taeric 8y ago
Comparing to the church is.... Interesting. Aren't the boy scouts more associated with the church? More to the point, if they really want to embrace change, embrace their name. Don't dilute it to a generic one that also has reputation with another organisation. I say that as someone that believes in redemption. Hiding behind another banner doesn't strike as redemptive behaviour. :( Edit: similarly, deceptive tactics such as pretending this is about something other than the name dilution doesn't scream good faith.
- leejoramo 8y ago
  Boy Scout Tripp’s are often (usually?) Sponsored by a local religious organization. They do have other types of sponsors such as civic organizations. My troop in the 1980s was sponsored by the local Lions Club. The local troops can have very different attitudes about beliefs in god (or the lack of), sexual orientation, the environment, etc
  - taeric 8y ago
    Right. And I don't mean that to be a damning claim on my part. Large organizations love hiding behind the claims that most local branches are not corrupt/outdated/whatever. And to a large extent, I agree with that. A problem, is this can essentially be seen as enabling the so called "fat cats" at the top to hide their hypocrisies behind the local orgs. That is, it is an incredibly enabling behavior. And I view it as basically equivalent between the two. (Of course, there is also the direct comparison that many of the boy scout troops were directly working with and benefiting from the organization called out as "having their heads in the sand.")

ycombobreaker 8y ago

The current rules in cub scouts require separate dens for boys and girls. IMHO this is a sort of "separate but equal" treatment that barricades girls from joining (because it requires additional volunteer leadership and critical mass of youth membership), and would have to change before it becomes a credible threat.