4 ms·

That's the sad part - their move towards USB-c reduces their costs, increases supply chain diversity, etc. But, they're likely locking down non MFI certified ac

That's the sad part - their move towards USB-c reduces their costs, increases supply chain diversity, etc. But, they're likely locking down non MFI certified accessories, at least in storage, for profit, because they can. Imagine the next iteration of the Mac - USB-C ports where storage manufacturers need to pay an MFI tax to function on a commodity, industry spec interface, just for an Apple blessing Where are the FTC, EU regulatory authorities?

matthewmacleod 8y ago
You are basing this view on absolutely no information.
- writepub 8y ago
  It's not a view, it's a fact. Please feel free to browse publicly available MFI policy. [1] Cheers! [1]: https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action#1-1 https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action#1-1
  - eridius 8y ago
    "they're likely locking down non MFI certified accessories" is not a fact. It's speculation. And the list of MFi licensed technologies does not include USB. So unless you're tunneling one of the existing MFi licensed technologies over USB (if that's even possible), then MFi does not seem to apply.
    - writepub 8y ago
      MFi is quite literally DRM for USB [1][2][3]!! You're probably confused by the form factor (Lightning vs USB-C), and understandably so. The MFi program prevents successful USB link establishment for non DRM-ed (i.e. unauthorized ) accessories. It's quite literally a toll on the USB lane that Apple can get away with [1]: http://ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar http://ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program
      - eridius 8y ago
        MFi covers Apple's proprietary connectors, as well as certain Apple wireless protocols. It does not cover generic USB. If you want more proof, every since the iPad came out Apple has actually sold a USB-A port for the iPad, called a "Camera Adapter" (e.g. Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter[1]). It's called this because the primary use-case is connecting your camera to your iPad in order to transfer photos off of it (similar to connecting an SD card), but it works with other USB accessories such as card readers, MIDI interfaces, ethernet adapters, etc. In fact, I'd assume that it works with precisely the same set of accessories that can plug directly into the USB-C port on the new iPad (well, except for being USB-A instead of USB-C). None of these USB accessories are part of the MFi program. Because they don't need to be. Because they're generic USB accessories, rather than accessories that use Lightning or 30-pin connectors. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-us...
        writepub 8y ago
        Products you've cited do implement MFI DRM themselves, like Apple's SD reader. It has an MFI DRM chip, plenty of teardowns are online. Additionally, the original post is about USB-C storage accessories not working with the new iPad Pros. So, there's ample evidence that Apple can indeed enforce DRM over USB It's trivial to connect an MFI/USB protocol analyzer to the USB-C bus, and watch the DRM in action yourself. Cheers
        eridius 8y ago
        Apple's SD card reader is a Lightning accessory. Of course it has MFi. But you can plug a generic USB SD card reader in to your iPad using Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter and that works just fine, even though the generic USB SD card reader does not have an MFI chip. Similarly you can plug a camera in (which is the original purpose of that adapter), or an ethernet adapter, or a MIDI interface, or more, none of which have MFi chips and yet work just fine when plugged in via Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. The fact that generic storage devices don't work has nothing at all to do with MFi and everything to do with the fact that iOS simply doesn't implement support for them.

matthewmacleod 8y ago

You are basing this view on absolutely no information.

writepub 8y ago
It's not a view, it's a fact. Please feel free to browse publicly available MFI policy. [1] Cheers! [1]: https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action#1-1 https://mfi.apple.com/MFiWeb/getFAQ.action#1-1
- eridius 8y ago
  "they're likely locking down non MFI certified accessories" is not a fact. It's speculation. And the list of MFi licensed technologies does not include USB. So unless you're tunneling one of the existing MFi licensed technologies over USB (if that's even possible), then MFi does not seem to apply.
  - writepub 8y ago
    MFi is quite literally DRM for USB [1][2][3]!! You're probably confused by the form factor (Lightning vs USB-C), and understandably so. The MFi program prevents successful USB link establishment for non DRM-ed (i.e. unauthorized ) accessories. It's quite literally a toll on the USB lane that Apple can get away with [1]: http://ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar http://ramtin-amin.fr/#tristar [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning_(connector) [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MFi_Program
    - eridius 8y ago
      MFi covers Apple's proprietary connectors, as well as certain Apple wireless protocols. It does not cover generic USB. If you want more proof, every since the iPad came out Apple has actually sold a USB-A port for the iPad, called a "Camera Adapter" (e.g. Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter[1]). It's called this because the primary use-case is connecting your camera to your iPad in order to transfer photos off of it (similar to connecting an SD card), but it works with other USB accessories such as card readers, MIDI interfaces, ethernet adapters, etc. In fact, I'd assume that it works with precisely the same set of accessories that can plug directly into the USB-C port on the new iPad (well, except for being USB-A instead of USB-C). None of these USB accessories are part of the MFi program. Because they don't need to be. Because they're generic USB accessories, rather than accessories that use Lightning or 30-pin connectors. [1] https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-us...
      - writepub 8y ago
        Products you've cited do implement MFI DRM themselves, like Apple's SD reader. It has an MFI DRM chip, plenty of teardowns are online. Additionally, the original post is about USB-C storage accessories not working with the new iPad Pros. So, there's ample evidence that Apple can indeed enforce DRM over USB It's trivial to connect an MFI/USB protocol analyzer to the USB-C bus, and watch the DRM in action yourself. Cheers
        eridius 8y ago
        Apple's SD card reader is a Lightning accessory. Of course it has MFi. But you can plug a generic USB SD card reader in to your iPad using Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter and that works just fine, even though the generic USB SD card reader does not have an MFI chip. Similarly you can plug a camera in (which is the original purpose of that adapter), or an ethernet adapter, or a MIDI interface, or more, none of which have MFi chips and yet work just fine when plugged in via Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter. The fact that generic storage devices don't work has nothing at all to do with MFi and everything to do with the fact that iOS simply doesn't implement support for them.