3 ms·

>> It's just basic horse-trading I understand it's all about horse-trading, it's the meaning of the word "everyone" in the claim "a net positive for everyone"

>> It's just basic horse-trading I understand it's all about horse-trading, it's the meaning of the word "everyone" in the claim "a net positive for everyone" that I question. My understanding of European Union horse-trading is that it's all about "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours". This might well be good for most if not all EU politicians and bureaucrats, it's patently not going to be a net positive for every single citizen. Example: the travelling circus that is the EU Parliament moving back and forth between BRU and SXB. "The campaign to end the European parliament's expensive monthly commute to Strasbourg received a boost yesterday when a European commissioner criticised it as a sign of "insanity". Margot Wallstrom, a commission vice-president, said: "Something that was once a very positive symbol of the European Union, reuniting France and Germany, has now become a negative symbol - of wasting money, bureaucracy and the insanity of the Brussels institutions."[0] "though MEPs have voted to scrap a second parliament, the French government has the power to block any such move [..] It is perhaps the most outlandish of the European Union’s excesses; a £130 million travelling circus that once a month sees the European Parliament decamp from Belgium to France. Over the course of the weekend, some 2,500 plastic trunks will be loaded on to five lorries and driven almost 300 miles from Brussels to Strasbourg. On Monday, about 1,000 politicians, officials and translators will then make the same journey on two specially chartered trains hired at taxpayers’ expense."[1] sources: [0]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/05/eu.politics https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/05/eu.politics [1]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/The-farce-of-the-EU-travelling-circus.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10565686/T...

shaki-dora 8y ago
"Everyone" was meant as "every EU member state". Of course no policy will ever truly be net positive for 300M+ people. That's impossible, in that, for example, a magic spell instantly turning North Korea into a free, democratic, peaceful country renown for its humor and abundance of good spots for snorkeling would likely be negative for Kim Jong Un. For the EU this discussion is basically identical with the tired flame war of "EU is undemocratic cleptocratic fascist/communist (please circle according to preference) monster bureaucracy deciding on banana and keeping brave people of Somecountry down" vs. "Nope, it isn't, and the banana example is no longer just wrong, but also outdated".
- logifail 8y ago
  >> Of course no policy will ever truly be net positive for 300M+ people. Never mind all of them, one could ask whether some "horse-traded" policies are even a net positive for a simple majority? I'm thinking of, for instance, the Common Agricultural Policy. This certainly isn't just an EU issue, or even confined to politics, small groups often seem to wield a disproportionate amount of power. Taleb has commented on this.[0] [0] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

shaki-dora 8y ago

"Everyone" was meant as "every EU member state". Of course no policy will ever truly be net positive for 300M+ people. That's impossible, in that, for example, a magic spell instantly turning North Korea into a free, democratic, peaceful country renown for its humor and abundance of good spots for snorkeling would likely be negative for Kim Jong Un. For the EU this discussion is basically identical with the tired flame war of "EU is undemocratic cleptocratic fascist/communist (please circle according to preference) monster bureaucracy deciding on banana and keeping brave people of Somecountry down" vs. "Nope, it isn't, and the banana example is no longer just wrong, but also outdated".

logifail 8y ago
>> Of course no policy will ever truly be net positive for 300M+ people. Never mind all of them, one could ask whether some "horse-traded" policies are even a net positive for a simple majority? I'm thinking of, for instance, the Common Agricultural Policy. This certainly isn't just an EU issue, or even confined to politics, small groups often seem to wield a disproportionate amount of power. Taleb has commented on this.[0] [0] https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15 https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...