5 ms·

San Fran couple illegally rented 14 units on Airbnb, hit with $2.25M fine

16 points by moonka 8y ago

bruceb 8y ago
Mods: maybe replace this source with a better article from the Chronicle: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-fines-Airbnb-landlords-2-25-million-for-13364513.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-fines-Airbnb...
paulpauper 8y ago
i wonder if they will have to pay it or how they can avoid paying. it seems these big fines are seldom paid in full if at all
- shados 8y ago
  From the article: > The couple was forced to put up their real estate holdings as collateral to ensure that they pay the fine So there's at least SOME teeth involved.
- itp 8y ago
  > The couple was forced to put up their real estate holdings as collateral to ensure that they pay the fine. That eliminates at least some avenues of avoidance. That's still no guarantee the fine is actually paid, of course, but if they do avoid it, it'll be with the complicity of the city.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  They'll probably appeal the decision and get it reduced. The City Attorney is flat out saying that the fine is as high as it is so that it makes the headlines and deters people. >The serious financial penalty is an important deterrent,' City Attorney Dennis Herrera said in a statement.
nuguy 8y ago
What a fantastic story. This is only the tip of the shady real estate iceberg probably.
bruceb 8y ago
For those who see the headline and think wow a bit stiff, this wasn't their first time cheating: The city first sued the Lees in 2014 for evicting tenants, including a disabled person, from one of their properties to rent the spaces on Airbnb. The Lees settled that case for $276,000 and agreed to an injunction against further vacation rentals in their 17 properties. Basically they got caught before paid small fine, and then just got back in the business.
dumbfoundded 8y ago
Airbnb also needs to face punishment. It's crazy that they can actively support people breaking laws. Silk Road gets shut down because they helped people buy illegal drugs but when Airbnb helps sell illegal hotel rooms, nothing happens. Uber, Airbnb, and many of these other 3rd wave tech companies are more legally inventive than technologically innovative. They all make money because they lower costs by circumventing laws. Hotels have to be ADA-compliant and their fire systems are tested.
- angryasian 8y ago
  exactly. If anyone has the data as to how many units a single person or persons of relation are renting its airbnb. Airbnb is clearly screwing the citizens and the city over here.
- shados 8y ago
  It always baffles me how many units in big cities are on Airbnb. Virtually every lease I've signed had clauses about subletting, with precedents on those clauses being enforced. Virtually every condo building have bylaws against short term rentals. Pretty much all towns have zonings that would cover these things. While the applicability of some of these is up in there air, at least SOME of these rules apply and would drastically reduce the feasibility of some of these rentals...but Airbnb makes it so easy in comparison with how hard it is to do something against it.
  - dumbfoundded 8y ago
    A lot of these tech companies don't recognize laws unless they see enforcement. An important part of a civil society to remember is that laws don't exist if they only exist on paper. Zoning doesn't matter if it isn't enforced. We're starting to see some enforcement but it almost always goes against a small guy. Airbnb isn't getting fined, the small family business is. Uber drivers with criminal records, driving drunk, assaulting passengers, and without commercial insurance don't get Uber in trouble either.

16 points by moonka 8y ago

Mods: maybe replace this source with a better article from the Chronicle: https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-fines-Airbnb-landlords-2-25-million-for-13364513.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/SF-fines-Airbnb...

paulpauper 8y ago

i wonder if they will have to pay it or how they can avoid paying. it seems these big fines are seldom paid in full if at all

shados 8y ago
From the article: > The couple was forced to put up their real estate holdings as collateral to ensure that they pay the fine So there's at least SOME teeth involved.
itp 8y ago
> The couple was forced to put up their real estate holdings as collateral to ensure that they pay the fine. That eliminates at least some avenues of avoidance. That's still no guarantee the fine is actually paid, of course, but if they do avoid it, it'll be with the complicity of the city.
dsfyu404ed 8y ago
They'll probably appeal the decision and get it reduced. The City Attorney is flat out saying that the fine is as high as it is so that it makes the headlines and deters people. >The serious financial penalty is an important deterrent,' City Attorney Dennis Herrera said in a statement.

nuguy 8y ago

What a fantastic story. This is only the tip of the shady real estate iceberg probably.

bruceb 8y ago

For those who see the headline and think wow a bit stiff, this wasn't their first time cheating: The city first sued the Lees in 2014 for evicting tenants, including a disabled person, from one of their properties to rent the spaces on Airbnb. The Lees settled that case for $276,000 and agreed to an injunction against further vacation rentals in their 17 properties. Basically they got caught before paid small fine, and then just got back in the business.

dumbfoundded 8y ago

Airbnb also needs to face punishment. It's crazy that they can actively support people breaking laws. Silk Road gets shut down because they helped people buy illegal drugs but when Airbnb helps sell illegal hotel rooms, nothing happens. Uber, Airbnb, and many of these other 3rd wave tech companies are more legally inventive than technologically innovative. They all make money because they lower costs by circumventing laws. Hotels have to be ADA-compliant and their fire systems are tested.

angryasian 8y ago
exactly. If anyone has the data as to how many units a single person or persons of relation are renting its airbnb. Airbnb is clearly screwing the citizens and the city over here.
shados 8y ago
It always baffles me how many units in big cities are on Airbnb. Virtually every lease I've signed had clauses about subletting, with precedents on those clauses being enforced. Virtually every condo building have bylaws against short term rentals. Pretty much all towns have zonings that would cover these things. While the applicability of some of these is up in there air, at least SOME of these rules apply and would drastically reduce the feasibility of some of these rentals...but Airbnb makes it so easy in comparison with how hard it is to do something against it.
- dumbfoundded 8y ago
  A lot of these tech companies don't recognize laws unless they see enforcement. An important part of a civil society to remember is that laws don't exist if they only exist on paper. Zoning doesn't matter if it isn't enforced. We're starting to see some enforcement but it almost always goes against a small guy. Airbnb isn't getting fined, the small family business is. Uber drivers with criminal records, driving drunk, assaulting passengers, and without commercial insurance don't get Uber in trouble either.