4 ms·

While I'm with you on the issue of honey vs. sugar, it's not quite so simple... Where's that honey coming from? Locally harvested? Great! But likely not the bu

While I'm with you on the issue of honey vs. sugar, it's not quite so simple... Where's that honey coming from? Locally harvested? Great! But likely not the bulk of supply. Supermarket honey? Transported from Goodness Knows Where -- very likely China or Chile, where the bees are intensively fed... (you guessed it!) sugar! That's why the honey is so flavourless, not to mention the Carbon footprint of all those honey-kilometres. Bees are almost as intensively farmed as anything else, and, while the effects and outcomes are nowhere near as severe as other forms of intensive husbandry, the honey is not necessarily the pure and innocent product you might think it is.

belorn 8y ago
Locally harvested is the only good option, but I would like to comment that when food is bought at lowest offer then you are likely to pay carbon-kilometres regardless if its corn, avocado, olive oil or what have you. Cheapest product in a global economy means that transportation cost is simply part of the competition to press prices down, and food prices has almost not moved at all in the last 50 years. But for honey in particular I would say its is even more important to buy locally. It is better, safer, and better for the environment. Mixed honey has none of the unique taste that specific environments can create (my personal favorite is pollen from mixed coniferous forest, preferable with a gps coordinate to the hive). Imported mixed honey also share the same problem that plague olive oil, which is food fraud. Because honey is expensive it often get mixed with cheaper syrups or worse stuff. From a ecological perspective it is also good if the colonies are in areas that need pollination, which locally harvested usually are. Bonus points if its a small business by someone personally invested in it. As for costs, the difference in prices from cheapest to expensive locally produced ones is normally for me about $1-2 dollar per jar. It such a small increase that just the security against food fraud is worth it (assuming you trust the local producer).
SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
> Bees are almost as intensively farmed as anything else, and, while the effects and outcomes are nowhere near as severe as other forms of intensive husbandry, the honey is not necessarily the pure and innocent product you might think it is. Thankyou for pointing this out. I say the same about almond milk and other products hyped by vegans that are pollinated by bees. The commercial beekeeping industry is horrific. Part of the reason wild bee colonies are collapsing is because of the diseases cultivated by commercial colonies. I'm a backyard beekeeper myself and can say with at least some authority that there's nothing at all "vegan" or "moral" or "natural" about the way these commercial operations treat the bees and the environment.
- JoeAltmaier 8y ago
  Really? We have to be sympathetic to mindless insects now? For instance, folks raise millions of crickets in my state for flour and protein - we eat them - but the bees deserve special empathy because they're not free-range or something? I understand folks like bees, see them in a kindly light. But they're little automatons with maybe a neuron or two total. If we raised them, crushed them and ate them, it'd be no different from how we treat other insects.
  - Vinnl 8y ago
    I think the GP was not referring to the harm to bees as horrific, but to the harm done to our living environment by harming bees.
    - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
      I wondered, but couldn't make sense of that. How is providing commercial bees in bulk a detriment to the environment? When is another bee a problem?
      - Vinnl 8y ago
        I have no personal anecdotes to bring in here, but they said: > Part of the reason wild bee colonies are collapsing is because of the diseases cultivated by commercial colonies. So if another bee comes at the cost of multiple existing bees, that's a problem.
        JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        And why is one bee more important than the other? Not sure diseases are 'cultivated' by anyone - they are unfortunate wherever they occur. Again, not sure what the idea is.
        Vinnl 8y ago
        Well, the point as I understand it is that it will eventually lead to the extinction of all/most bees - and plenty of other species, perhaps including humans. The scale is my assumption, but the point appears clear to me.

belorn 8y ago

Locally harvested is the only good option, but I would like to comment that when food is bought at lowest offer then you are likely to pay carbon-kilometres regardless if its corn, avocado, olive oil or what have you. Cheapest product in a global economy means that transportation cost is simply part of the competition to press prices down, and food prices has almost not moved at all in the last 50 years. But for honey in particular I would say its is even more important to buy locally. It is better, safer, and better for the environment. Mixed honey has none of the unique taste that specific environments can create (my personal favorite is pollen from mixed coniferous forest, preferable with a gps coordinate to the hive). Imported mixed honey also share the same problem that plague olive oil, which is food fraud. Because honey is expensive it often get mixed with cheaper syrups or worse stuff. From a ecological perspective it is also good if the colonies are in areas that need pollination, which locally harvested usually are. Bonus points if its a small business by someone personally invested in it. As for costs, the difference in prices from cheapest to expensive locally produced ones is normally for me about $1-2 dollar per jar. It such a small increase that just the security against food fraud is worth it (assuming you trust the local producer).

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago

> Bees are almost as intensively farmed as anything else, and, while the effects and outcomes are nowhere near as severe as other forms of intensive husbandry, the honey is not necessarily the pure and innocent product you might think it is. Thankyou for pointing this out. I say the same about almond milk and other products hyped by vegans that are pollinated by bees. The commercial beekeeping industry is horrific. Part of the reason wild bee colonies are collapsing is because of the diseases cultivated by commercial colonies. I'm a backyard beekeeper myself and can say with at least some authority that there's nothing at all "vegan" or "moral" or "natural" about the way these commercial operations treat the bees and the environment.

JoeAltmaier 8y ago
Really? We have to be sympathetic to mindless insects now? For instance, folks raise millions of crickets in my state for flour and protein - we eat them - but the bees deserve special empathy because they're not free-range or something? I understand folks like bees, see them in a kindly light. But they're little automatons with maybe a neuron or two total. If we raised them, crushed them and ate them, it'd be no different from how we treat other insects.
- Vinnl 8y ago
  I think the GP was not referring to the harm to bees as horrific, but to the harm done to our living environment by harming bees.
  - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
    I wondered, but couldn't make sense of that. How is providing commercial bees in bulk a detriment to the environment? When is another bee a problem?
    - Vinnl 8y ago
      I have no personal anecdotes to bring in here, but they said: > Part of the reason wild bee colonies are collapsing is because of the diseases cultivated by commercial colonies. So if another bee comes at the cost of multiple existing bees, that's a problem.
      - JoeAltmaier 8y ago
        And why is one bee more important than the other? Not sure diseases are 'cultivated' by anyone - they are unfortunate wherever they occur. Again, not sure what the idea is.
        Vinnl 8y ago
        Well, the point as I understand it is that it will eventually lead to the extinction of all/most bees - and plenty of other species, perhaps including humans. The scale is my assumption, but the point appears clear to me.