5 ms·

When participating in the system of the US, wealth and job security are extremely useful. It may be rational to think “I will have more impact working to the bo

When participating in the system of the US, wealth and job security are extremely useful. It may be rational to think “I will have more impact working to the bone and then donating/volunteering, than I would if I worked less and volunteered more”

eiaoa 8y ago
> When participating in the system of the US, wealth and job security are extremely useful. It may be rational to think “I will have more impact working to the bone and then donating/volunteering, than I would if I worked less and volunteered more” I think that's the trap: you can't work yourself to the bone then have energy to work more to be active in your community, volunteer, run for office, pester politicians with letters, etc. Those are the kind of activities that I think could avoid the decay and perhaps even lead to some improvement. I think it's a mistake to view "donating money" as meaningful response to many current social problems. Many of them are caused or propped up by people with more money than you could ever dream of having. Thinking that mere donations can win is like thinking a group insurgents could win in a stand-up direct fight against the US Army. The insurgents have different advantages than the US Army, and if they're smart, they'll use them rather than futilely attempting to reach parity with the US Army's strengths. There's definitely some minimum amount of donations that will be required to really change things, but at a certain point I think the returns diminish.
- michaelt 8y ago
  I think it's a mistake to view "donating" as meaningful response to many current social problems. It probably depends on what problem you hope to solve, and what the other activities you're considering are. A guy on minimum wage can ladle out soup at a soup kitchen every bit as well as I can. But can he convince my elected representatives that I care about soup kitchens? Or make soup kitchen users into my personal friends? Not so much.
eeZah7Ux 8y ago
Countless social revolutions started from people who had the time to get socially engaged e.g. students and academics. Keeping people busy with real or artificial work is extremely common in dictatorships.
- why_only_15 8y ago
  Could you give an example of this - a society with a dictatorship that endeavors to give people artificial work?
  - rnd0 8y ago
    Stalin's five year plans, Pol Pot and Moa's Cultural revolution immediately spring to mind. The ancient Roman practice of having Soldiers work on construction projects (eg Hadrian's Wall) between battles is a similar idea (though to keep them from looting, not plotting revolution).
    - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
      As well as fascism in Italy and nazism. They all disliked unemployed people and often forced them into work or in the military, loathed artists and writers that were able to work independently. They glorified "work for work's sake". Created work artificially through gargantuan public works, bureaucracy and... war - the ultimate instrument to keep people busy and give them a common purpose.
  - aigen001 8y ago
    http://i.imgur.com/3q0xAJv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3q0xAJv.jpg Not sure if this counts but this image of a soldier mopping in the rain comes to mind.
    - potta_coffee 8y ago
      That looks like a Marine and this kind of pointless punishment is common in the corps. The more pointless, the better. (Think, digging a hole and filling it back up again, repeatedly.)

eiaoa 8y ago

> When participating in the system of the US, wealth and job security are extremely useful. It may be rational to think “I will have more impact working to the bone and then donating/volunteering, than I would if I worked less and volunteered more” I think that's the trap: you can't work yourself to the bone then have energy to work more to be active in your community, volunteer, run for office, pester politicians with letters, etc. Those are the kind of activities that I think could avoid the decay and perhaps even lead to some improvement. I think it's a mistake to view "donating money" as meaningful response to many current social problems. Many of them are caused or propped up by people with more money than you could ever dream of having. Thinking that mere donations can win is like thinking a group insurgents could win in a stand-up direct fight against the US Army. The insurgents have different advantages than the US Army, and if they're smart, they'll use them rather than futilely attempting to reach parity with the US Army's strengths. There's definitely some minimum amount of donations that will be required to really change things, but at a certain point I think the returns diminish.

michaelt 8y ago
I think it's a mistake to view "donating" as meaningful response to many current social problems. It probably depends on what problem you hope to solve, and what the other activities you're considering are. A guy on minimum wage can ladle out soup at a soup kitchen every bit as well as I can. But can he convince my elected representatives that I care about soup kitchens? Or make soup kitchen users into my personal friends? Not so much.

eeZah7Ux 8y ago

Countless social revolutions started from people who had the time to get socially engaged e.g. students and academics. Keeping people busy with real or artificial work is extremely common in dictatorships.

why_only_15 8y ago
Could you give an example of this - a society with a dictatorship that endeavors to give people artificial work?
- rnd0 8y ago
  Stalin's five year plans, Pol Pot and Moa's Cultural revolution immediately spring to mind. The ancient Roman practice of having Soldiers work on construction projects (eg Hadrian's Wall) between battles is a similar idea (though to keep them from looting, not plotting revolution).
  - eeZah7Ux 8y ago
    As well as fascism in Italy and nazism. They all disliked unemployed people and often forced them into work or in the military, loathed artists and writers that were able to work independently. They glorified "work for work's sake". Created work artificially through gargantuan public works, bureaucracy and... war - the ultimate instrument to keep people busy and give them a common purpose.
- aigen001 8y ago
  http://i.imgur.com/3q0xAJv.jpg http://i.imgur.com/3q0xAJv.jpg Not sure if this counts but this image of a soldier mopping in the rain comes to mind.
  - potta_coffee 8y ago
    That looks like a Marine and this kind of pointless punishment is common in the corps. The more pointless, the better. (Think, digging a hole and filling it back up again, repeatedly.)