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I find this response, and the downvotes on the parent comment, incredibly sad. If you want to live in a libertarian fantasy world with no safety net, you are f

I find this response, and the downvotes on the parent comment, incredibly sad. If you want to live in a libertarian fantasy world with no safety net, you are free to create one, and try to attract citizens to your country. Even in prehistoric times, it was generally understood that there was societal benefit to letting women take care of children when they were extremely young and that perhaps letting a new mother skip some of her normal chores so she could breastfeed would be better for the tribe as her baby could grow up to be a hunter and help bring in more food and resources.

illumin8 8y ago
HN moderators, you should check the biases of the mod brigade. I'm out of this conversation. Immediate downvotes because I don't agree with the toxic alt-right views that seem to dominate conversations like these. I'm done with this discussion; seems we can't have a meaningful one.
- wyoh 8y ago
  "people disagree with me so they must be alt-right" Please.
- jki275 8y ago
  "toxic alt right"? I express anything not patently left and i'm instantly vote brigaded into oblivion. You're living in a fantasy world if you think anything here is "alt right".
- dpark 8y ago
  Boo for whining about downvotes and accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being alt-right. You're being intellectually dishonest here. You expect to be able to share your point of view without critical response but you insult others for expressing theirs.
  - illumin8 8y ago
    You shouldn't express points of view through moderation. Replying to the comment is the appropriate way to express differing points of view.
    - dpark 8y ago
      I agree. Unfortunately that's not the HR stance. I can't find it now but PG stated years ago that downvotes are appropriate for expressing disagreement on HN. Also, I'm not sure votes count as moderation. Moderation is generally something that exists at a level above community feedback.
ummonk 8y ago
Parental leave is not a safety net. Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. Note that I do support strong parental leave policies, and advocate for such wherever I work.
- bacon_waffle 8y ago
  > Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. While you're obviously right that one can plan to become pregnant, that doesn't make unplanned pregnancies a non-issue. So, that safety net is beneficial.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    Whether an unplanned pregnancy results in parenthood is a planned choice.
    - bacon_waffle 8y ago
      It's not always a choice. And even where there is a choice, it's not an easy one.
    - engineeringwoke 8y ago
      A couple in their early 30's just meet up after getting home from work. The wife, nervous, approaches her husband and says, "I have something to tell you". She pauses, taking in the moment, and him. "I'm pregnant". Is that an easy moment for you? If she has an abortion, then chances are higher that she could never have a child again. It's not just a "choice". Christ.
jaxtellerSoA 8y ago
>Even in prehistoric times, it was generally understood that there was societal benefit to letting women take care of children In prehistoric times a village raised a child, not an individual.
cvwright 8y ago
> If you want to live in a libertarian fantasy world with no safety net, you are free to create one, and try to attract citizens to your country. For better or worse, you just described the early industrial United States. And people flocked from all over the world to come to it.
- AngryData 8y ago
  That might a lot to do with the highly available and relatively untapped resources and cheap land. Britain was more industrialized and progressing faster than the US at the time, but only received a fraction of the amount of immigration, but it was also highly settled with much more expensive land and most resources already claimed/owned and being tapped to fuel their industrialization.

illumin8 8y ago

HN moderators, you should check the biases of the mod brigade. I'm out of this conversation. Immediate downvotes because I don't agree with the toxic alt-right views that seem to dominate conversations like these. I'm done with this discussion; seems we can't have a meaningful one.

wyoh 8y ago
"people disagree with me so they must be alt-right" Please.
jki275 8y ago
"toxic alt right"? I express anything not patently left and i'm instantly vote brigaded into oblivion. You're living in a fantasy world if you think anything here is "alt right".
dpark 8y ago
Boo for whining about downvotes and accusing everyone who doesn't agree with you of being alt-right. You're being intellectually dishonest here. You expect to be able to share your point of view without critical response but you insult others for expressing theirs.
- illumin8 8y ago
  You shouldn't express points of view through moderation. Replying to the comment is the appropriate way to express differing points of view.
  - dpark 8y ago
    I agree. Unfortunately that's not the HR stance. I can't find it now but PG stated years ago that downvotes are appropriate for expressing disagreement on HN. Also, I'm not sure votes count as moderation. Moderation is generally something that exists at a level above community feedback.

ummonk 8y ago

Parental leave is not a safety net. Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. Note that I do support strong parental leave policies, and advocate for such wherever I work.

bacon_waffle 8y ago
> Parenthood can be planned - it isn't some random catastrophe that befalls you for which you need an insurance safety net. While you're obviously right that one can plan to become pregnant, that doesn't make unplanned pregnancies a non-issue. So, that safety net is beneficial.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Whether an unplanned pregnancy results in parenthood is a planned choice.
  - bacon_waffle 8y ago
    It's not always a choice. And even where there is a choice, it's not an easy one.
  - engineeringwoke 8y ago
    A couple in their early 30's just meet up after getting home from work. The wife, nervous, approaches her husband and says, "I have something to tell you". She pauses, taking in the moment, and him. "I'm pregnant". Is that an easy moment for you? If she has an abortion, then chances are higher that she could never have a child again. It's not just a "choice". Christ.

jaxtellerSoA 8y ago

>Even in prehistoric times, it was generally understood that there was societal benefit to letting women take care of children In prehistoric times a village raised a child, not an individual.

cvwright 8y ago

> If you want to live in a libertarian fantasy world with no safety net, you are free to create one, and try to attract citizens to your country. For better or worse, you just described the early industrial United States. And people flocked from all over the world to come to it.

AngryData 8y ago
That might a lot to do with the highly available and relatively untapped resources and cheap land. Britain was more industrialized and progressing faster than the US at the time, but only received a fraction of the amount of immigration, but it was also highly settled with much more expensive land and most resources already claimed/owned and being tapped to fuel their industrialization.