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This is the quote that stands out to me: > You won’t be promoted for doing your job, you will be promoted by focusing on your promotion. Well, yeah. That's ho

This is the quote that stands out to me: > You won’t be promoted for doing your job, you will be promoted by focusing on your promotion. Well, yeah. That's how it is in a lot of companies, especially big ones. Doing what is expected of you in your current position is proof that you are well suited for your current position. Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. If the company has a documented promotion process, (and it seems like Amazon does based on the article), then focusing on that process is not a distraction from doing your job: it is doing your job! They went to the trouble of spelling it out for you because that's what they want you to do! It seems like the author's idea of "doing your job" was different than his employer's, so of course he had a bad time.

simaracode 8y ago
Agree 100% it’s part of your job. You need to manage your promotion rhythm in any company or you will be left just to the context or interest of your manager.
- RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 8y ago
  I don't think it's so cut and dried. I concur that "100% it’s part of your job" in the sense that ultimately you are responsible for looking after your own interests, but disagree that this completely absolves your manager / company responsibilities to evaluate promotions by their own initiatives. If anything, not doing so sows discontent. I was (un)fortunate that my first few managers were proactive in rewarding my good performance, until I had a manager who wasn't. Under the new manager, my peers had all been promoted in due time, and my feedback from them and said manager had been positive, as he'd expressed during our frequent 1:1, so I wasn't worried about my progression. That was until I casually brought the subject up at a 1:1. He of course affirmed that it would be forthcoming, but from his demeanor my gut told me that he hadn't given it a thought until that moment. I believe this was not out of malice or office politics, and in retrospect my coworkers had dropped hints to me that I should have broached the subject sooner rather than later -- this was how this organization operated -- but the idea was so foreign to me that I didn't quite process their message. Had it been malicious I would have been screwed. Ever since I've erred on the side of impudence. I hate it, but...[0] No analogy is perfect, but suppose if you do your job, you expect to be compensated; if you do a good job, you expect to be promoted, get a raise / bonus, etc. Would it be acceptable for a company to not pay its employees unless they bring it up each pay period, because it's "100% [...] part of [their] job"? Indeed there are industries -- often low end retail -- where this happens a lot, and this assuredly contributes to employee dissatisfaction. Similarly, some people would prefer if their work speak for itself, and managers / companies wouldn't neglect to promote them just because they don't bring it up. When the OP found out that's not now it worked at Amazon (and many other large enterprises), he was understandably miffed, as I was from my own experience. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2JTPalv_s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2JTPalv_s
NikolaNovak 8y ago
I struggled with the same concept myself. A decade ago my manager provided an additional perspective : initiative, eagerness to succeed,ambition... Desire to grow and willingness o work for it, are qualities the company appreciates in addition to "Doing your job". The onerous process is not maybe the best way to measure it, but it's the best way many big companies have. Explained that way, the 'gating' is a little bit easier to understand. I still struggle with it every time I need to invest the work, but c'est La vie.
agoldis 8y ago
Thanks for pointing that out! I was frustrated by the expectation to focus on documenting to get a promotion. I don't think it is a good practice and was surprised to see that: > focusing on that process (promotion) is not a distraction from doing your job: it is doing your job! Seems like you understanding of "doing job" is different. To make it clear - I used to be promoted by helping a business grow - complete activities on time on an excellent manner, optimize, reduce costs, propose new features / work on POC. Not by writing self-promotional documents. > Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. Unfortunately, it is not by "exceeding", but documenting that you have exceeded, and knowing how to document it right, sometimes not really exceeding at all. > It seems like the author's idea of "doing your job" was different than his employer's, so of course he had a bad time. Do you think I came from Tel Aviv to Vancouver AND brought my family to just "do the job" and not to exceed? And, moreover, write and share an article about that? No.
- throwawayamzn98 8y ago
  >Seems like you understanding of "doing job" is different. To make it clear - I used to be promoted by helping a business grow - complete activities on time on an excellent manner, optimize, reduce costs, propose new features / work on POC. >Not by writing self-promotional documents. >> Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. >Unfortunately, it is not by "exceeding", but documenting that you have exceeded, and knowing how to document it right, sometimes not really exceeding at all. You're stating the problem to be documenting. Yes, Amazon, I, and many others think that having concrete examples and data outlined explicitly is a good way to make these important decisions. Otherwise you have nepotism and gut-feeling type promotions for employees. If you thought about this more, would you really want promotions handed out randomly? How else do you show you're "completing activities, optimize, reduce costs, work on POC". Do you want to leave this all up to one person, your manager? What if they have a slight against you? Do you want your manager to do the work of documenting your progression? You still run into the single point of failure problem, on top of your manager's workload increasing for each developer, on top of them usually being already busier. Amazon et. al. constantly seek data on doing these types of things better, but you haven't proposed much of an alternative. (Disclaimer: Amazon employee, opinions are my own, not my employer's)
cblum 8y ago
> Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. That was exactly his point though. He hoped that he would get promoted by doing an awesome job, by going beyond what was merely expected as "done". I know where he's coming from. I've had one job in my career that was exactly like that (and I miss it dearly). I never really worked on promotions while on that job. I was very passionate about the stuff we were doing and made sure we were always building the right product for our customers, made sure our code was excellent, made sure we fixed bugs quickly, etc. And I didn't do those things by going around politicking. I just came in every day, sat at my desk, wrote code, had technical discussions with other folks, did code reviews, etc. I got two promotions while on that job. They always came as a surprise and came with a brief talk with management about how much they appreciated my contributions and my technical skills. These days I just dread all the career stuff. Thankfully I'm in a position at my current company where I can just "park" for the rest of my time there if I want to. The last thing I want to do when going to work is politicking and forking alliances and whatnot. I want my technical work to speak for itself. If that's not enough, I don't care. I make more than enough to make a good living.
- agoldis 8y ago
  very exact description! thank you!
hef19898 8y ago
There is one very important destinction to make here. Exceeding expectations =/= focuding on your promotion. The first thing is about focusing on your job and getting things done, improving things. The latter is about making the right connections and playing political games. At one point this means that people focusing on their job are being played by those focusing on their promotion. And tthe job-focused people become a threat as well once reality hits and performance does matter. And if focusing on your promotion is your job according to Amazon, well than there famed leadership principles, Customer Obsession being the first that comes to mind, are just words on some document you have to use for political purposes. What that means for Amazon as a company is everyones guess.

simaracode 8y ago

Agree 100% it’s part of your job. You need to manage your promotion rhythm in any company or you will be left just to the context or interest of your manager.

RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u 8y ago
I don't think it's so cut and dried. I concur that "100% it’s part of your job" in the sense that ultimately you are responsible for looking after your own interests, but disagree that this completely absolves your manager / company responsibilities to evaluate promotions by their own initiatives. If anything, not doing so sows discontent. I was (un)fortunate that my first few managers were proactive in rewarding my good performance, until I had a manager who wasn't. Under the new manager, my peers had all been promoted in due time, and my feedback from them and said manager had been positive, as he'd expressed during our frequent 1:1, so I wasn't worried about my progression. That was until I casually brought the subject up at a 1:1. He of course affirmed that it would be forthcoming, but from his demeanor my gut told me that he hadn't given it a thought until that moment. I believe this was not out of malice or office politics, and in retrospect my coworkers had dropped hints to me that I should have broached the subject sooner rather than later -- this was how this organization operated -- but the idea was so foreign to me that I didn't quite process their message. Had it been malicious I would have been screwed. Ever since I've erred on the side of impudence. I hate it, but...[0] No analogy is perfect, but suppose if you do your job, you expect to be compensated; if you do a good job, you expect to be promoted, get a raise / bonus, etc. Would it be acceptable for a company to not pay its employees unless they bring it up each pay period, because it's "100% [...] part of [their] job"? Indeed there are industries -- often low end retail -- where this happens a lot, and this assuredly contributes to employee dissatisfaction. Similarly, some people would prefer if their work speak for itself, and managers / companies wouldn't neglect to promote them just because they don't bring it up. When the OP found out that's not now it worked at Amazon (and many other large enterprises), he was understandably miffed, as I was from my own experience. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2JTPalv_s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Z2JTPalv_s

NikolaNovak 8y ago

I struggled with the same concept myself. A decade ago my manager provided an additional perspective : initiative, eagerness to succeed,ambition... Desire to grow and willingness o work for it, are qualities the company appreciates in addition to "Doing your job". The onerous process is not maybe the best way to measure it, but it's the best way many big companies have. Explained that way, the 'gating' is a little bit easier to understand. I still struggle with it every time I need to invest the work, but c'est La vie.

agoldis 8y ago

Thanks for pointing that out! I was frustrated by the expectation to focus on documenting to get a promotion. I don't think it is a good practice and was surprised to see that: > focusing on that process (promotion) is not a distraction from doing your job: it is doing your job! Seems like you understanding of "doing job" is different. To make it clear - I used to be promoted by helping a business grow - complete activities on time on an excellent manner, optimize, reduce costs, propose new features / work on POC. Not by writing self-promotional documents. > Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. Unfortunately, it is not by "exceeding", but documenting that you have exceeded, and knowing how to document it right, sometimes not really exceeding at all. > It seems like the author's idea of "doing your job" was different than his employer's, so of course he had a bad time. Do you think I came from Tel Aviv to Vancouver AND brought my family to just "do the job" and not to exceed? And, moreover, write and share an article about that? No.

throwawayamzn98 8y ago
>Seems like you understanding of "doing job" is different. To make it clear - I used to be promoted by helping a business grow - complete activities on time on an excellent manner, optimize, reduce costs, propose new features / work on POC. >Not by writing self-promotional documents. >> Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. >Unfortunately, it is not by "exceeding", but documenting that you have exceeded, and knowing how to document it right, sometimes not really exceeding at all. You're stating the problem to be documenting. Yes, Amazon, I, and many others think that having concrete examples and data outlined explicitly is a good way to make these important decisions. Otherwise you have nepotism and gut-feeling type promotions for employees. If you thought about this more, would you really want promotions handed out randomly? How else do you show you're "completing activities, optimize, reduce costs, work on POC". Do you want to leave this all up to one person, your manager? What if they have a slight against you? Do you want your manager to do the work of documenting your progression? You still run into the single point of failure problem, on top of your manager's workload increasing for each developer, on top of them usually being already busier. Amazon et. al. constantly seek data on doing these types of things better, but you haven't proposed much of an alternative. (Disclaimer: Amazon employee, opinions are my own, not my employer's)

cblum 8y ago

> Exceeding expectations for your current position is how you get promoted. That was exactly his point though. He hoped that he would get promoted by doing an awesome job, by going beyond what was merely expected as "done". I know where he's coming from. I've had one job in my career that was exactly like that (and I miss it dearly). I never really worked on promotions while on that job. I was very passionate about the stuff we were doing and made sure we were always building the right product for our customers, made sure our code was excellent, made sure we fixed bugs quickly, etc. And I didn't do those things by going around politicking. I just came in every day, sat at my desk, wrote code, had technical discussions with other folks, did code reviews, etc. I got two promotions while on that job. They always came as a surprise and came with a brief talk with management about how much they appreciated my contributions and my technical skills. These days I just dread all the career stuff. Thankfully I'm in a position at my current company where I can just "park" for the rest of my time there if I want to. The last thing I want to do when going to work is politicking and forking alliances and whatnot. I want my technical work to speak for itself. If that's not enough, I don't care. I make more than enough to make a good living.

agoldis 8y ago
very exact description! thank you!

hef19898 8y ago

There is one very important destinction to make here. Exceeding expectations =/= focuding on your promotion. The first thing is about focusing on your job and getting things done, improving things. The latter is about making the right connections and playing political games. At one point this means that people focusing on their job are being played by those focusing on their promotion. And tthe job-focused people become a threat as well once reality hits and performance does matter. And if focusing on your promotion is your job according to Amazon, well than there famed leadership principles, Customer Obsession being the first that comes to mind, are just words on some document you have to use for political purposes. What that means for Amazon as a company is everyones guess.