10 ms·

I used to have no issues at all with EMF; not that I was very healthy, but I didn't feel any effects. Then I stopped entirely for six months while I lived in an

I used to have no issues at all with EMF; not that I was very healthy, but I didn't feel any effects. Then I stopped entirely for six months while I lived in an ashram out in nowhere doing Yoga all day. And sure enough, after coming back I could barely do 10 minutes with my laptop on a wireless network before feeling sick for hours. These days, I don't even use a cell phone unless I absolutely have to; and I only use wired technology at home. Working in an office or spending a lot of time in cities is not even on the radar. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see people raving about their AirPods online, walking around all day with wireless antennas in your ears looks like suicide from here. So; there goes the karma, I guess. I am painfully aware this is not a very popular perspective, but it's my authentic experience and this is my Internet as much as anyone else's. Edit: See, I told you. Keep chasing your tails then, I don't care. It's evolution in action.

extra88 8y ago
Do you have a lawyer yet to sue the ashram? You were fine before and after spending six months there you have a debilitating disease. Clearly there is a causal relationship.
- loceng 8y ago
  Unfortunately there hasn't been much legitimate study into this area, in part likely because there seem to be very few who are sensitive enough to 1) notice it, and 2) for it to bother them significantly. I have found people who just from talking to them, based on their life experiences, predicted they would be very sensitive to EMFs - and then upon shielding their laptop temporarily they could notice the difference; I do want to do blind studies related to this to dispel naysayers (who also don't have proof to the contrary).
  - starbeast 8y ago
    >Unfortunately there hasn't been much legitimate study into this area What would be your take on studies such as these two? - Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity: A Systematic Review of Provocation Studies https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00006842-200503000-00010 https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00006842-200503000-000... Radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure and non-specific symptoms of ill health: A systematic review https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935108000601?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001393510... edit - they were picked purely as being the first two I came across in a very quick search. It doesn't seem as though research is that thin on the ground.
    - loceng 8y ago
      Thanks for linking those - I'll add them to bookmarks for when I have a chance to dive into this all more seriously. I'd like to ask you though what experiences you have with developing your own self-awareness, introspection, etc?
      - starbeast 8y ago
        >Thanks for linking those - I'll add them to bookmarks for when I have a chance to dive into this all more seriously. They were the first studies listed on the relevant wikipedia page. For all the bluster, woo and handwaving, you haven't really bothered researching into this at all, have you?
        loceng 8y ago
        Your comment here doesn't deserve a reply, other than to say your attempted put-down is lame.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
alkonaut 8y ago
If you can really sense EM fields of that kind without knowing that they are there, (a double blind experiment) then I believe there is a lot of money to be made. Edit: apparently the most famous, Randi’s million dollar prize has ended, but I’m sure there are others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranorma...
XMPPwocky 8y ago
This sounds relatively simple to test. Get a laptop, write a script to randomly enable/disable wi-fi every $timeinterval (and log whether or not it was enabled). (Also need to block the taskbar icon, somehow... can probably just hide it.) If 10 minutes of Wi-Fi being on is enough to cause noticeable symptoms, it should be quite easy to prove that - if you can successfully determine whether or not Wi-Fi is on, better than chance, you have one heck of a significant result! You could save lots of people, most likely, from nasty symptoms And if not... well, you have options there too. (Of course, you have to make sure you get enough trials- and fix it ahead of time, can't just stop when you see a significant result!)
- loceng 8y ago
  For myself, it's the electronics in the base of a laptop that bothers me most that I must shield from - and I use a wireless keyboard to keep my hands off of the keyboard of the laptop, otherwise my hands start to hurt very quickly. I don't appear to be sensitive enough to sense interference or sensitivity to wi-fi etc, or it's too subtle compared to stronger electrical pollution, so I just can't perceive it.
  - Nasrudith 8y ago
    That sounds far more ergonomic than electromagnetic or possibly temperature sensitivity. If that was the case then the wireless keyboard should be even worse. I found at times switching to a non flat keyboard helped when they were starting to bother me.
    - loceng 8y ago
      No, this isn't an ergonomic issue - though yes, my shoulders are relaxed with the keyboard on my lap. Also, wifi would be far less of a strength of EMF than whatever is being emitted from the laptop base - so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that wifi would be worse. Edit: For anyone wondering how I know this, I can rest my hands where I have my laptop, however if I have the EMF shield/cover over the base, then my hands don't start to hurt when resting them.
- 8y ago
jodrellblank 8y ago
Did you do anything to confirm it was EMF/Wifi? Like moving further away because E/M strength falls off with the square of the distance. Perhaps your laptop screen has developed a flicker, which gives you a headache from long use? Perhaps your eyesight or room lighting has changed so the contrast now strains your eyes? Perhaps your study room now has a bunch of cars parking outside, and is filling with fumes, or there's a gas leak in your house, or a bit of heating/melting plastic somewhere releasing fumes? Perhaps you're returning with a lot of apprehension, and getting a bunch of stress just sitting down to rejoin "work" and getting a lot of stress-related muscle / skeletal tension and gut upset? Perhaps it's a correlation - you make coffee and sit down to work, but it's the coffee you're not adjusted to anymore? The world is an electric place - homes run mains electric cables all around, the atmosphere is filled with radio and TV and satellite transmissions, things like streetlights are quite electrically noisy, neighbours with wifi is common. A "good" signal strength might be in the region of -30 to -65dbm, or 0.000001 Watts to 0.0000000003 Watts at the receiver. Compare that one way with a 1KW electric heater - this is a lot weaker. Compare it another way to the way you can turn a radio or TV on and pick up strong signals which are always around and going through you - but I have no idea how the signal strength compares.
- loceng 8y ago
  I appreciate your analysis. To contrast this, simply to bring everything into a larger perspective: we developed in a natural world without all of this electrical pollution. And as your questions suggest, it is very difficult to pinpoint what any one cause may be, including what state of health a person is currently in - and whether that is perhaps making them hypersensitive, likewise it could be a 'skill' or sensitivity they developed and can feel only in specific contexts which would further make testing it difficult.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    >we developed in a natural world without all of this electrical pollution. That big glowy thing in the sky might disagree.
    - 8y ago
starbeast 8y ago
>I only use wired technology at home. Do you shield all the wires in your house? Any powerline ethernet adaptors will be spamming radio noise everywhere. They are a real headache for ham radio enthusiasts. Also, don't unroll sellotape. Is a wideband source that emits from microwave RF, right through the visible spectrum, all the way up to x-rays.
- loceng 8y ago
  I think there's an element of accumulative and quantity/volume effect with EMF sensitivity, so perhaps not having heavily shielded wires is necessary; the arrangement of the wires could also have an impact as to whether they create a closed faraday cage or not.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    I think there is a lot of psychological stuff at play if you only feel it off things you associate with electricity, but don't get it from unrolling sellotape.
    - loceng 8y ago
      Hm, I'm not sure about sellotape for myself - however there certainly are a wide range of EMFs and electrical (static or otherwise) to test for.
      - starbeast 8y ago
        Breaking up various rocks is a good one. You can get all sorts of RF emissions doing that.
    - sifoobar 8y ago
      But then, you have no idea who I am or what level of introspection I'm capable of. Assuming thousands of people are just imagining it because the people who sell the crap and their hangarounds told you so doesn't make you look very smart.
loceng 8y ago
I upvoted you - in part because I don't believe in downvotes, however also because I share a similar sensitivity to EMFs. I used to be much more sensitive, hypersensitive, to EMFs including magnetic fields. Now in order to use a laptop I put a protective cover over the main part of it, and I use a wireless keyboard; if I would keep my hands over the laptop keyboard - where the underlying electronics are - then my hands will start to hurt almost immediately and continue to hurt for a length dependent on how long I've kept them above. I have other related experiences to sensitivity, and hypersensitivity: in my early 20s I have audiograms showing I could hear at 0 Dbs at all frequencies, and another one showing I could hear at -14 Dbs at certain frequencies (the sound equipment couldn't test for lower than that). Laptop screens still do bother me, however magnitudes less than the CPU etc; I have found other people who are as sensitive. Perhaps a few odd questions for you: 1) do you or did you used to eat wheat (maybe before the ashram?), 2) did you ever have ear infections as a child, were they painful at all? Feel free to email your answers matt@engn.com
- sifoobar 8y ago
  And no doubt the mob will punish you for it. Still, thanks for showing some courage and integrity, it's rare in these times. Yep, started getting red itchy patches on my palms from resting them on the laptop so I moved to a stationary setup. I used to eat meat and processed crap, until I stopped I had issues with wheat. Now that I'm on a vegan organic diet I have no issues. Could be that eating meat and poison messed up my intestines to the point where wheat became a problem. The only weird thing with my hearing that I know of is that I'm missing a band of frequencies entirely. I don't have a good explanation for that one. I have better directional hearing than most, but difficulties following conversations in noisy environments. The thing is, I'm pretty sure the sensitivity isn't the actual problem. As long as I keep myself out of harms way; I feel better than I ever did before, and it keeps improving. The problem is that we've built a society on top of technology that's harmful to humans, despite all sorts of warnings along the way.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    >The only weird thing with my hearing that I know of is that I'm missing a band of frequencies entirely. I don't have a good explanation for that one. That's normal hearing loss. You'll have damaged or be missing some stereocilia of that resonant length.

extra88 8y ago

Do you have a lawyer yet to sue the ashram? You were fine before and after spending six months there you have a debilitating disease. Clearly there is a causal relationship.

loceng 8y ago
Unfortunately there hasn't been much legitimate study into this area, in part likely because there seem to be very few who are sensitive enough to 1) notice it, and 2) for it to bother them significantly. I have found people who just from talking to them, based on their life experiences, predicted they would be very sensitive to EMFs - and then upon shielding their laptop temporarily they could notice the difference; I do want to do blind studies related to this to dispel naysayers (who also don't have proof to the contrary).
- starbeast 8y ago
  >Unfortunately there hasn't been much legitimate study into this area What would be your take on studies such as these two? - Electromagnetic Hypersensitivity: A Systematic Review of Provocation Studies https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00006842-200503000-00010 https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00006842-200503000-000... Radiofrequency electromagnetic field exposure and non-specific symptoms of ill health: A systematic review https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935108000601?via%3Dihub https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001393510... edit - they were picked purely as being the first two I came across in a very quick search. It doesn't seem as though research is that thin on the ground.
  - loceng 8y ago
    Thanks for linking those - I'll add them to bookmarks for when I have a chance to dive into this all more seriously. I'd like to ask you though what experiences you have with developing your own self-awareness, introspection, etc?
    - starbeast 8y ago
      >Thanks for linking those - I'll add them to bookmarks for when I have a chance to dive into this all more seriously. They were the first studies listed on the relevant wikipedia page. For all the bluster, woo and handwaving, you haven't really bothered researching into this at all, have you?
      - loceng 8y ago
        Your comment here doesn't deserve a reply, other than to say your attempted put-down is lame.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

alkonaut 8y ago

If you can really sense EM fields of that kind without knowing that they are there, (a double blind experiment) then I believe there is a lot of money to be made. Edit: apparently the most famous, Randi’s million dollar prize has ended, but I’m sure there are others. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranorma...

XMPPwocky 8y ago

This sounds relatively simple to test. Get a laptop, write a script to randomly enable/disable wi-fi every $timeinterval (and log whether or not it was enabled). (Also need to block the taskbar icon, somehow... can probably just hide it.) If 10 minutes of Wi-Fi being on is enough to cause noticeable symptoms, it should be quite easy to prove that - if you can successfully determine whether or not Wi-Fi is on, better than chance, you have one heck of a significant result! You could save lots of people, most likely, from nasty symptoms And if not... well, you have options there too. (Of course, you have to make sure you get enough trials- and fix it ahead of time, can't just stop when you see a significant result!)

loceng 8y ago
For myself, it's the electronics in the base of a laptop that bothers me most that I must shield from - and I use a wireless keyboard to keep my hands off of the keyboard of the laptop, otherwise my hands start to hurt very quickly. I don't appear to be sensitive enough to sense interference or sensitivity to wi-fi etc, or it's too subtle compared to stronger electrical pollution, so I just can't perceive it.
- Nasrudith 8y ago
  That sounds far more ergonomic than electromagnetic or possibly temperature sensitivity. If that was the case then the wireless keyboard should be even worse. I found at times switching to a non flat keyboard helped when they were starting to bother me.
  - loceng 8y ago
    No, this isn't an ergonomic issue - though yes, my shoulders are relaxed with the keyboard on my lap. Also, wifi would be far less of a strength of EMF than whatever is being emitted from the laptop base - so I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that wifi would be worse. Edit: For anyone wondering how I know this, I can rest my hands where I have my laptop, however if I have the EMF shield/cover over the base, then my hands don't start to hurt when resting them.
8y ago

jodrellblank 8y ago

Did you do anything to confirm it was EMF/Wifi? Like moving further away because E/M strength falls off with the square of the distance. Perhaps your laptop screen has developed a flicker, which gives you a headache from long use? Perhaps your eyesight or room lighting has changed so the contrast now strains your eyes? Perhaps your study room now has a bunch of cars parking outside, and is filling with fumes, or there's a gas leak in your house, or a bit of heating/melting plastic somewhere releasing fumes? Perhaps you're returning with a lot of apprehension, and getting a bunch of stress just sitting down to rejoin "work" and getting a lot of stress-related muscle / skeletal tension and gut upset? Perhaps it's a correlation - you make coffee and sit down to work, but it's the coffee you're not adjusted to anymore? The world is an electric place - homes run mains electric cables all around, the atmosphere is filled with radio and TV and satellite transmissions, things like streetlights are quite electrically noisy, neighbours with wifi is common. A "good" signal strength might be in the region of -30 to -65dbm, or 0.000001 Watts to 0.0000000003 Watts at the receiver. Compare that one way with a 1KW electric heater - this is a lot weaker. Compare it another way to the way you can turn a radio or TV on and pick up strong signals which are always around and going through you - but I have no idea how the signal strength compares.

loceng 8y ago
I appreciate your analysis. To contrast this, simply to bring everything into a larger perspective: we developed in a natural world without all of this electrical pollution. And as your questions suggest, it is very difficult to pinpoint what any one cause may be, including what state of health a person is currently in - and whether that is perhaps making them hypersensitive, likewise it could be a 'skill' or sensitivity they developed and can feel only in specific contexts which would further make testing it difficult.
- starbeast 8y ago
  >we developed in a natural world without all of this electrical pollution. That big glowy thing in the sky might disagree.
  - 8y ago

starbeast 8y ago

>I only use wired technology at home. Do you shield all the wires in your house? Any powerline ethernet adaptors will be spamming radio noise everywhere. They are a real headache for ham radio enthusiasts. Also, don't unroll sellotape. Is a wideband source that emits from microwave RF, right through the visible spectrum, all the way up to x-rays.

loceng 8y ago
I think there's an element of accumulative and quantity/volume effect with EMF sensitivity, so perhaps not having heavily shielded wires is necessary; the arrangement of the wires could also have an impact as to whether they create a closed faraday cage or not.
- starbeast 8y ago
  I think there is a lot of psychological stuff at play if you only feel it off things you associate with electricity, but don't get it from unrolling sellotape.
  - loceng 8y ago
    Hm, I'm not sure about sellotape for myself - however there certainly are a wide range of EMFs and electrical (static or otherwise) to test for.
    - starbeast 8y ago
      Breaking up various rocks is a good one. You can get all sorts of RF emissions doing that.
  - sifoobar 8y ago
    But then, you have no idea who I am or what level of introspection I'm capable of. Assuming thousands of people are just imagining it because the people who sell the crap and their hangarounds told you so doesn't make you look very smart.

loceng 8y ago

I upvoted you - in part because I don't believe in downvotes, however also because I share a similar sensitivity to EMFs. I used to be much more sensitive, hypersensitive, to EMFs including magnetic fields. Now in order to use a laptop I put a protective cover over the main part of it, and I use a wireless keyboard; if I would keep my hands over the laptop keyboard - where the underlying electronics are - then my hands will start to hurt almost immediately and continue to hurt for a length dependent on how long I've kept them above. I have other related experiences to sensitivity, and hypersensitivity: in my early 20s I have audiograms showing I could hear at 0 Dbs at all frequencies, and another one showing I could hear at -14 Dbs at certain frequencies (the sound equipment couldn't test for lower than that). Laptop screens still do bother me, however magnitudes less than the CPU etc; I have found other people who are as sensitive. Perhaps a few odd questions for you: 1) do you or did you used to eat wheat (maybe before the ashram?), 2) did you ever have ear infections as a child, were they painful at all? Feel free to email your answers matt@engn.com

sifoobar 8y ago
And no doubt the mob will punish you for it. Still, thanks for showing some courage and integrity, it's rare in these times. Yep, started getting red itchy patches on my palms from resting them on the laptop so I moved to a stationary setup. I used to eat meat and processed crap, until I stopped I had issues with wheat. Now that I'm on a vegan organic diet I have no issues. Could be that eating meat and poison messed up my intestines to the point where wheat became a problem. The only weird thing with my hearing that I know of is that I'm missing a band of frequencies entirely. I don't have a good explanation for that one. I have better directional hearing than most, but difficulties following conversations in noisy environments. The thing is, I'm pretty sure the sensitivity isn't the actual problem. As long as I keep myself out of harms way; I feel better than I ever did before, and it keeps improving. The problem is that we've built a society on top of technology that's harmful to humans, despite all sorts of warnings along the way.
- starbeast 8y ago
  >The only weird thing with my hearing that I know of is that I'm missing a band of frequencies entirely. I don't have a good explanation for that one. That's normal hearing loss. You'll have damaged or be missing some stereocilia of that resonant length.