4 ms·

Parent is not kidding about the bleak. Peter Watts is very proud of getting rejected by a Russian publisher for being "too dark". It's a great read though; I c

by mrec 8y ago

Parent is not kidding about the bleak. Peter Watts is very proud of getting rejected by a Russian publisher for being "too dark". It's a great read though; I can't think of many SF books that can hold a candle to it for sheer density of novel ideas.

geoah 8y ago
I would definitely suggest giving Gregg Egan a shot (start with diaspora maybe?) and Hannu Rajaniemi’s Quantum Thief. Neither are dark but I loved the ideas they mess around with. Same goes for Cicin’s third body problem for how far he takes his ideas.
- codeulike 8y ago
  Yeah would second that. Diaspora and Quantum Thief are both amazing in very different ways.
- mrec 8y ago
  Egan IMHO works better in short stories than novels; he's at his best when everything serves to illustrate a single idea. Unstable Orbits in the Space of Lies is still one of my all-time faves. Haven't tried 3BP. Haven't even heard of Quantum Thief, but that sounds fun; I might look it out. One classic I keep meaning to reread is Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker. Never surpassed in scope, and you've got to hand it to someone who predicted teledildonics in 1937.
thesz 8y ago
He is not too dark. He just don't know better. ;) This is one of my criticisms of the author who write about, basically, deep planning: he himself didn't have horizon of planning far enough to envision future where horrors he plan to write about have been foreseen and humanity overcome them at their inception and these horrors are removed as class of errors. Imagine PSP/TSP at the level of humanity progress/interaction with other civilizations. Strugatskie brothers came there very closely - they have a civilization which plans progress around possible bad things that can happen [1] (including not having space travel so that tagorians won't fight, I guess). But they also was wrong - they saw this as impeding progress while in effect PSP/TSP-like practices make progress more streamlined and faster. But at least they tried. Watts didn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagorians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagorians
- red75prime 8y ago
  You foresee the horrors, what do you plan to do about them? Nuclear weapons made the road to the world government extremely dangerous, and without the world government enforcement of bans on certain dangerous technologies is practically impossible.
  - thesz 8y ago
    I don't know. You jumped on me out of the blue with this. I have about a week to answer before comments will be closed here and, frankly, I do not have enough free time to think my answer through. So here I am: I don't know. On contrary, Watts, who spend several years thinking his fiction through, should have better answers than what he presented to us.
    - red75prime 8y ago
      The Strugatsky brothers didn't offer a solution too. They mostly hand-waved the question. It goes like this, if I am not mistaken: when humanity situation became dire, humans suddenly changed their minds and became one single family.
      - thesz 8y ago
        You are not completely right. "The Final Circle of Paradise" offers a view on problems besides "humanity situation became dire" and a solution, if you may call it a solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise
        red75prime 8y ago
        It is not a solution indeed. It's what happens now. Marijuana legalization, computer games and so on.
        thesz 8y ago
andrewflnr 8y ago
I second The Quantum Thief. I would also put Revelation Space and, really, any Culture novel above it in terms of sheer novelty level. I've also heard good things about The Fifth Season in that respect. Not that I don't like Blindsight, I just tend to think of it more as a One Big Idea book.
- mrec 8y ago
  I read Revelation Space many years ago and it made no impression whatsoever; can't remember a single thing about it. I do like the (early) Culture novels, although their most striking novelties (like the the interesting temporal structure in Use of Weapons) aren't always SFnal ideas.

by mrec 8y ago

geoah 8y ago

I would definitely suggest giving Gregg Egan a shot (start with diaspora maybe?) and Hannu Rajaniemi’s Quantum Thief. Neither are dark but I loved the ideas they mess around with. Same goes for Cicin’s third body problem for how far he takes his ideas.

codeulike 8y ago
Yeah would second that. Diaspora and Quantum Thief are both amazing in very different ways.
mrec 8y ago
Egan IMHO works better in short stories than novels; he's at his best when everything serves to illustrate a single idea. Unstable Orbits in the Space of Lies is still one of my all-time faves. Haven't tried 3BP. Haven't even heard of Quantum Thief, but that sounds fun; I might look it out. One classic I keep meaning to reread is Olaf Stapledon's Star Maker. Never surpassed in scope, and you've got to hand it to someone who predicted teledildonics in 1937.

thesz 8y ago

He is not too dark. He just don't know better. ;) This is one of my criticisms of the author who write about, basically, deep planning: he himself didn't have horizon of planning far enough to envision future where horrors he plan to write about have been foreseen and humanity overcome them at their inception and these horrors are removed as class of errors. Imagine PSP/TSP at the level of humanity progress/interaction with other civilizations. Strugatskie brothers came there very closely - they have a civilization which plans progress around possible bad things that can happen [1] (including not having space travel so that tagorians won't fight, I guess). But they also was wrong - they saw this as impeding progress while in effect PSP/TSP-like practices make progress more streamlined and faster. But at least they tried. Watts didn't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagorians https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagorians

red75prime 8y ago
You foresee the horrors, what do you plan to do about them? Nuclear weapons made the road to the world government extremely dangerous, and without the world government enforcement of bans on certain dangerous technologies is practically impossible.
- thesz 8y ago
  I don't know. You jumped on me out of the blue with this. I have about a week to answer before comments will be closed here and, frankly, I do not have enough free time to think my answer through. So here I am: I don't know. On contrary, Watts, who spend several years thinking his fiction through, should have better answers than what he presented to us.
  - red75prime 8y ago
    The Strugatsky brothers didn't offer a solution too. They mostly hand-waved the question. It goes like this, if I am not mistaken: when humanity situation became dire, humans suddenly changed their minds and became one single family.
    - thesz 8y ago
      You are not completely right. "The Final Circle of Paradise" offers a view on problems besides "humanity situation became dire" and a solution, if you may call it a solution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Final_Circle_of_Paradise
      - red75prime 8y ago
        It is not a solution indeed. It's what happens now. Marijuana legalization, computer games and so on.
        thesz 8y ago

andrewflnr 8y ago

I second The Quantum Thief. I would also put Revelation Space and, really, any Culture novel above it in terms of sheer novelty level. I've also heard good things about The Fifth Season in that respect. Not that I don't like Blindsight, I just tend to think of it more as a One Big Idea book.

mrec 8y ago
I read Revelation Space many years ago and it made no impression whatsoever; can't remember a single thing about it. I do like the (early) Culture novels, although their most striking novelties (like the the interesting temporal structure in Use of Weapons) aren't always SFnal ideas.