6 ms·

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism. Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could

It seems to me, that legalizing prostitution would be at the top of the issues list for feminism. Most of the arguments made in support of legal abortion could also be made for legal prostitution. Furthermore, there is a fair amount of research indicating that legal prostitution reduces occurances of rape. Although I suppose it would increase “liquidity” in the market, and reduce the value of sex to a certain degree.

mattmanser 8y ago
It's far more complicated than that, there's a big division in feminists over whether women should have the choice, or whether it's inherently exploitative by men.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    I wasn't even taking a side, merely explaining to the parent that there's two sides among feminists. Please don't put words in my mouth, I was presuming nothing.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      There was no intent to put words in your mouth and I wasn't suggesting the presumption originates with you.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Doesn't have to "presume". Historically and globally that has overwhelmingly been the case.
    - DoreenMichele 8y ago
      Isn't the point of feminism to change things so that historical trends concerning gendered outcomes change? If you assume that the past trends are set in stone and cannot change, then policy proposals sound either pointless or like they will reinforce the status quo rather than rewrite things.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        No, I assume that certain past trends are based on things more than oppression, e.g. gender differences.
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        Other than men generally having more money than women, what gender difference do you attribute this situation to? What innate quality is there that trumps financial inequality for purposes of explaining who purchases sexual services and who sells them?
        coldtea 8y ago
        The evolutionary trait that has a male mammal just ejaculate whenever they can with ease, whereas a female mammal has to wait for the appropriate period to conceive and then pass several months to give birth and carefully feed milk and raise the child. Which makes the former wanting to play around as much as possible, while the latter not so much so. Man, for similar reasons (and the male of the species in most such species) is selected, where woman selects. It's easier for a man to be rejected by potential mates, than the opposite. Most of our urges are not rationally defined by us (or even our species alone) -- they are millions of years old.
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        There is more to human female sexuality than pair bonding and pregnancy. Your understanding of human sexuality and mine are so not on the same page, they aren't even in the same book.
tdb7893 8y ago
Prostitution is a harder issue because the worry is that by its nature it will still be exploitative and harmful even if it's legal. If prostitution would be safe and healthy for the women most feminists I know would be for it, the worry is that if you legalize it in the US legalizing it will sort of industrialized the harm that's currently endemic to the system. Feminists ultimately want what's best for the women and in this situation I think that would be legalizing it but it's not completely clear (also many feminists I've met are for legalizing it but are just less sure than on more obvious issues like abortion).
tomjen3 8y ago
There is a "real-politic" feminism/feministic view where the goal is to increase the value of women in the sexual market. The value of goods sold will always be at a higher value when you have a monopoly. Legal prostitution would get men sex for certain at a known cost, whereas taking somebody out on a date is not certain to lead to sex. Keeping prostitution illegal means the monopoly is strengthened. BTW, here in Denmark, having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway), which means that prostitutes can outsource their protection to the police. In Sweden it is legal sell sex, but not to buy it, which means they technically could call the police anyway, but it will destroy their business -- and that the customers they do get are less likely to obey they law and so are more likely to be violent.
- dsfyu404ed 8y ago
  > having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway) So how do brothels/"massage parlors" make money? Charge prostitutes? Sell overpriced condoms?

mattmanser 8y ago

It's far more complicated than that, there's a big division in feminists over whether women should have the choice, or whether it's inherently exploitative by men.

DoreenMichele 8y ago
This presumes that only women can be prostitutes and only men can be clients, among other things.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  I wasn't even taking a side, merely explaining to the parent that there's two sides among feminists. Please don't put words in my mouth, I was presuming nothing.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    There was no intent to put words in your mouth and I wasn't suggesting the presumption originates with you.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Doesn't have to "presume". Historically and globally that has overwhelmingly been the case.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Isn't the point of feminism to change things so that historical trends concerning gendered outcomes change? If you assume that the past trends are set in stone and cannot change, then policy proposals sound either pointless or like they will reinforce the status quo rather than rewrite things.
    - coldtea 8y ago
      No, I assume that certain past trends are based on things more than oppression, e.g. gender differences.
      - DoreenMichele 8y ago
        Other than men generally having more money than women, what gender difference do you attribute this situation to? What innate quality is there that trumps financial inequality for purposes of explaining who purchases sexual services and who sells them?
        coldtea 8y ago
        The evolutionary trait that has a male mammal just ejaculate whenever they can with ease, whereas a female mammal has to wait for the appropriate period to conceive and then pass several months to give birth and carefully feed milk and raise the child. Which makes the former wanting to play around as much as possible, while the latter not so much so. Man, for similar reasons (and the male of the species in most such species) is selected, where woman selects. It's easier for a man to be rejected by potential mates, than the opposite. Most of our urges are not rationally defined by us (or even our species alone) -- they are millions of years old.
        DoreenMichele 8y ago
        There is more to human female sexuality than pair bonding and pregnancy. Your understanding of human sexuality and mine are so not on the same page, they aren't even in the same book.

tdb7893 8y ago

Prostitution is a harder issue because the worry is that by its nature it will still be exploitative and harmful even if it's legal. If prostitution would be safe and healthy for the women most feminists I know would be for it, the worry is that if you legalize it in the US legalizing it will sort of industrialized the harm that's currently endemic to the system. Feminists ultimately want what's best for the women and in this situation I think that would be legalizing it but it's not completely clear (also many feminists I've met are for legalizing it but are just less sure than on more obvious issues like abortion).

tomjen3 8y ago

There is a "real-politic" feminism/feministic view where the goal is to increase the value of women in the sexual market. The value of goods sold will always be at a higher value when you have a monopoly. Legal prostitution would get men sex for certain at a known cost, whereas taking somebody out on a date is not certain to lead to sex. Keeping prostitution illegal means the monopoly is strengthened. BTW, here in Denmark, having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway), which means that prostitutes can outsource their protection to the police. In Sweden it is legal sell sex, but not to buy it, which means they technically could call the police anyway, but it will destroy their business -- and that the customers they do get are less likely to obey they law and so are more likely to be violent.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
> having sex for money is legal, but only the prostitute can make money of of it (directly, anyway) So how do brothels/"massage parlors" make money? Charge prostitutes? Sell overpriced condoms?