56 ms·

Presumably you don't have extra staff; you have the amount of (relatively unskilled) staff that can (and will) do the job in the time allotted. As soon as you h

by Zanni 8y ago

Presumably you don't have extra staff; you have the amount of (relatively unskilled) staff that can (and will) do the job in the time allotted. As soon as you have to pay them more, you expect more from them. The workers that can't deliver $15/hour in value get let go. The ones that can deliver stay on. This is great for the existing workers that were already delivering that value but were underpaid. For the workers that can only deliver $7.25/hour ... they're never going to get (or keep) another job.

starbeast 8y ago
If a food business is making close to minimum wage in value per worker, then they are going to fail anyway. Last time I was on minimum wage was being a kitchen porter, many moons ago. If minimum wage had gone up, the job would have not changed at all in the slightest. I mean, they were not going to serve the food on dirty plates and none of the chefs or owners were going to stoop to cleaning anything.
- Zanni 8y ago
  I'm using $15/hr and $7.25/hr in "value" for convenience here (though I didn't make that clear). Really, I mean $15/hr plus benefits + overhead + margin. But, to my argument, I think that jobs will have to change. I'm regularly appalled by the quality of the service at fast food places: trash overflowing, dirty tables, dirty bathrooms, slow order taking, incorrect order taking, etc. Okay, you can't get the best employees for minimum wage, and some spreadsheet probably figured that the loss in customers due to poor service is more than made up for by the low cost of workers. Once that cost is cranked up, that cost/benefit ratio changes, and better service will be expected. Yay! That's a good thing. For employees that can deliver it. But for those that can't, especially those that struggle with English (many, where I live), they're going to be cost/benefited out of a job.
  - starbeast 8y ago
    Fast food has good margins and a customer base that is surprisingly price insensitive, beyond that of choosing where to eat out. People who have time, skill, or inclination to cook at home usually already are, and those who are not take a lot of convincing to change their habits. I very much doubt that at the level of fast food employee on minimum wage, you will see all that much of a change in the job, or for the people in those jobs to change all that much, purely because of a hike in minimum wage at that level. Of course, if minimum wages were inflated high enough to make fast food businesses in general unprofitable, and not just the badly run ones, then this would cause economic problems, but I am not aware of this situation having occurred anywhere. If someone can tell me of a jurisdiction where McDonald's cannot run a restaurant, due to minimum wages being too high, then I'd love to hear, but it would seem to be an extreme exception, if it happens at all.
sureaboutthis 8y ago
Note: I've owned restaurants for decades. This is absolutely true. As wages have gone up over the years, especially this year, and my managers have been more willing to let someone go because they don't perform as well as others or don't show the potential. We have always had a higher bar--and paid higher accordingly--but cheap extra staff might take some of the burden off the others if they could accomplish some parts of the job till we could find someone else. Some years, like now, that can take months. Letting someone go means others may get overtime, which is OK by me. I would rather have a good person there, and pay them extra, than an under-performing person there who only ticks everyone off and leaves a bad impression on a customer. What I find interesting is people think the rising minimum wage has no affect on the cost to the customer. Recently, I sold one of my restaurants to someone whose first action was to raise prices by 20% because we paid more than his other restaurants do AND he cut hours by 25%!
UncleMeat 8y ago
Why weren't people paying the workers who deliver $15/hr in value that much money? Those people are getting fucked by the system.
- sundaeofshock 8y ago
  where do you think profit comes from? The excess value generated by employees is extracted by the owners of the business.

by Zanni 8y ago

starbeast 8y ago

If a food business is making close to minimum wage in value per worker, then they are going to fail anyway. Last time I was on minimum wage was being a kitchen porter, many moons ago. If minimum wage had gone up, the job would have not changed at all in the slightest. I mean, they were not going to serve the food on dirty plates and none of the chefs or owners were going to stoop to cleaning anything.

Zanni 8y ago
I'm using $15/hr and $7.25/hr in "value" for convenience here (though I didn't make that clear). Really, I mean $15/hr plus benefits + overhead + margin. But, to my argument, I think that jobs will have to change. I'm regularly appalled by the quality of the service at fast food places: trash overflowing, dirty tables, dirty bathrooms, slow order taking, incorrect order taking, etc. Okay, you can't get the best employees for minimum wage, and some spreadsheet probably figured that the loss in customers due to poor service is more than made up for by the low cost of workers. Once that cost is cranked up, that cost/benefit ratio changes, and better service will be expected. Yay! That's a good thing. For employees that can deliver it. But for those that can't, especially those that struggle with English (many, where I live), they're going to be cost/benefited out of a job.
- starbeast 8y ago
  Fast food has good margins and a customer base that is surprisingly price insensitive, beyond that of choosing where to eat out. People who have time, skill, or inclination to cook at home usually already are, and those who are not take a lot of convincing to change their habits. I very much doubt that at the level of fast food employee on minimum wage, you will see all that much of a change in the job, or for the people in those jobs to change all that much, purely because of a hike in minimum wage at that level. Of course, if minimum wages were inflated high enough to make fast food businesses in general unprofitable, and not just the badly run ones, then this would cause economic problems, but I am not aware of this situation having occurred anywhere. If someone can tell me of a jurisdiction where McDonald's cannot run a restaurant, due to minimum wages being too high, then I'd love to hear, but it would seem to be an extreme exception, if it happens at all.

sureaboutthis 8y ago

Note: I've owned restaurants for decades. This is absolutely true. As wages have gone up over the years, especially this year, and my managers have been more willing to let someone go because they don't perform as well as others or don't show the potential. We have always had a higher bar--and paid higher accordingly--but cheap extra staff might take some of the burden off the others if they could accomplish some parts of the job till we could find someone else. Some years, like now, that can take months. Letting someone go means others may get overtime, which is OK by me. I would rather have a good person there, and pay them extra, than an under-performing person there who only ticks everyone off and leaves a bad impression on a customer. What I find interesting is people think the rising minimum wage has no affect on the cost to the customer. Recently, I sold one of my restaurants to someone whose first action was to raise prices by 20% because we paid more than his other restaurants do AND he cut hours by 25%!

UncleMeat 8y ago

Why weren't people paying the workers who deliver $15/hr in value that much money? Those people are getting fucked by the system.

sundaeofshock 8y ago
where do you think profit comes from? The excess value generated by employees is extracted by the owners of the business.