5 ms·

Music academia is terrible and riddled with politics and infighting from my experience also. The number of actual livable jobs for classical musicians are very

Music academia is terrible and riddled with politics and infighting from my experience also. The number of actual livable jobs for classical musicians are very low. It makes me pissed off how public schools will still spend hundred of thousands of dollars and push kids into classical music when it is such a dead end, and competition is so high. It is a ponzi scheme where the students pay the teachers, then the students become teachers and the cycle starts over again. Barely anybody who does not play an instrument ever listens to classical music it is a joke. The least selling genre of music in the United States behind jazz.

dddddaviddddd 8y ago
Participating in music is personally fulfilling, but unlikely to give financial flexibility. Schools should emphasize the role that it will realistically play in students' lives.
- analog31 8y ago
  This is definitely the emphasis in music education at the K-12 level, and to a growing extent at the college level as well. I came across this page recently: https://www.music.wisc.edu/areas/jazz-studies/ https://www.music.wisc.edu/areas/jazz-studies/ Note that it drops a pretty strong hint that you should not major in music exclusively.
smallnamespace 8y ago
> It is a ponzi scheme where the students pay the teachers, then the students become teachers and the cycle starts over again. Barely anybody who does not play an instrument ever listens to classical music it is a joke Or, this is the normal way traditional arts and crafts of all sorts are transmitted through the generations? It's not a Ponzi scheme unless it promises supranormal exponential growth. I learned a classical instrument and it taught me many lessons that I don't I would've learned elsewhere (or at least not until much, much later in life): - rote repetition and practice isn't sexy, but it works and will lead to steady improvement, no matter how bad you are initially - there is an effective technique to rote practice, and you can put it to use for any skill that you wish to acquire - failing many times is part of the road to success These are all skills that are very applicable to software developers as well. I'm sure there are people who tried very hard to become classical musicians and now regret that choice, and perhaps some resent those who encouraged them along that path, but I never expected to become a professional and continue to happily play in my free time. Same goes for many of my music acquaintances.
flashgordon 8y ago
I don't get this. Why aren't kids taught music just for the sake of it instead of for a career? You most likely have mastery by not doing it "full-time" but at least you will enjoy it and get to a point where yo would be able to play it socially and enjoyably!
- maceurt 8y ago
  Well, if you want to teach kids music that they actually enjoy and that will be more applicable to this generation, focus on pop music, rap music, hip hop, any popular music genre. Hip hop and R&B are the most popular genres of music in the US [1], classical music and jazz are the least popular genres of music [2]. Why are we still teaching classical and jazz over genres more popular, enjoyable, and accessible? It is not a good career path, it is not popular with kids or with the masses, and it is a lot more expensive than any other genre of music. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2017/07/17/hip-hoprb-has-now-become-the-dominant-genre-in-the-u-s-for-the-first-time/#7b52a7053834 https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2017/07/17/hip-hop... [2] https://news.jazzline.com/news/jazz-least-popular-music-genre/ https://news.jazzline.com/news/jazz-least-popular-music-genr...
  - burfog 8y ago
    I try to imagine a high school band playing rap music... this is not easy. I think you'd have to assign the rap itself to the percussion section, and there wouldn't be much left for the rest of the band to play. Copyright makes that idea rough anyway. Classical music is far easier to get. Sousa marches and the national anthem are also easy to get. I mostly don't see how any of this relates to a career path. We teach kids music because they enjoy the teamwork and accomplishment.
  - StephenMelon 8y ago
    Why are we still teaching assemby and C over development languages more popular, enjoyable, and accessible? It is not a good career path, it is not popular with kids or with the masses, and it is a lot more expensive than any other genre of software development.
BurningFrog 8y ago
All academia is riddled with politics and infighting. It's an unavoidable consequence of lifetime employment security (tenure). Be careful what you wish for!
telesilla 8y ago
Music schools aren't just about performance - as long as you are clever about what your research field is, any degree is applicable to any kind of career. Want to go into politics? Write a dissertation on the political influences of the Habsburg monarchy on European music, or perhaps unearth new data on the fly-over republican states through an ethnomusicological lens. Want to get into technology? There is probably no more fun way than to do a PhD in sonic arts, creating complex technical-marvel music machines and writing music software that lands you a job with one of the many music software companies (or start your own). Maybe you want a teaching career? Sure - it's hard work to get tenure but what could be more rewarding than talking and thinking about music all day. Sports or therapy? Music therapy in combination with Feldenkrais or Alexander techniques gets you into a more interesting, unique field than just standard therapy. I could think of a lot more examples how a music school could really supplement the career of anyone - it's the fault of the music school that focuses on looking backwards and only celebrating chamber/choir music. Many schools are realising that's not helpful anymore and while believe me, I love a great rendering of an 18th century opera, you can get a lot more out of music school than that.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

dddddaviddddd 8y ago

Participating in music is personally fulfilling, but unlikely to give financial flexibility. Schools should emphasize the role that it will realistically play in students' lives.

analog31 8y ago
This is definitely the emphasis in music education at the K-12 level, and to a growing extent at the college level as well. I came across this page recently: https://www.music.wisc.edu/areas/jazz-studies/ https://www.music.wisc.edu/areas/jazz-studies/ Note that it drops a pretty strong hint that you should not major in music exclusively.

smallnamespace 8y ago

> It is a ponzi scheme where the students pay the teachers, then the students become teachers and the cycle starts over again. Barely anybody who does not play an instrument ever listens to classical music it is a joke Or, this is the normal way traditional arts and crafts of all sorts are transmitted through the generations? It's not a Ponzi scheme unless it promises supranormal exponential growth. I learned a classical instrument and it taught me many lessons that I don't I would've learned elsewhere (or at least not until much, much later in life): - rote repetition and practice isn't sexy, but it works and will lead to steady improvement, no matter how bad you are initially - there is an effective technique to rote practice, and you can put it to use for any skill that you wish to acquire - failing many times is part of the road to success These are all skills that are very applicable to software developers as well. I'm sure there are people who tried very hard to become classical musicians and now regret that choice, and perhaps some resent those who encouraged them along that path, but I never expected to become a professional and continue to happily play in my free time. Same goes for many of my music acquaintances.

flashgordon 8y ago

I don't get this. Why aren't kids taught music just for the sake of it instead of for a career? You most likely have mastery by not doing it "full-time" but at least you will enjoy it and get to a point where yo would be able to play it socially and enjoyably!

maceurt 8y ago
Well, if you want to teach kids music that they actually enjoy and that will be more applicable to this generation, focus on pop music, rap music, hip hop, any popular music genre. Hip hop and R&B are the most popular genres of music in the US [1], classical music and jazz are the least popular genres of music [2]. Why are we still teaching classical and jazz over genres more popular, enjoyable, and accessible? It is not a good career path, it is not popular with kids or with the masses, and it is a lot more expensive than any other genre of music. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2017/07/17/hip-hoprb-has-now-become-the-dominant-genre-in-the-u-s-for-the-first-time/#7b52a7053834 https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2017/07/17/hip-hop... [2] https://news.jazzline.com/news/jazz-least-popular-music-genre/ https://news.jazzline.com/news/jazz-least-popular-music-genr...
- burfog 8y ago
  I try to imagine a high school band playing rap music... this is not easy. I think you'd have to assign the rap itself to the percussion section, and there wouldn't be much left for the rest of the band to play. Copyright makes that idea rough anyway. Classical music is far easier to get. Sousa marches and the national anthem are also easy to get. I mostly don't see how any of this relates to a career path. We teach kids music because they enjoy the teamwork and accomplishment.
- StephenMelon 8y ago
  Why are we still teaching assemby and C over development languages more popular, enjoyable, and accessible? It is not a good career path, it is not popular with kids or with the masses, and it is a lot more expensive than any other genre of software development.

BurningFrog 8y ago

All academia is riddled with politics and infighting. It's an unavoidable consequence of lifetime employment security (tenure). Be careful what you wish for!

telesilla 8y ago

Music schools aren't just about performance - as long as you are clever about what your research field is, any degree is applicable to any kind of career. Want to go into politics? Write a dissertation on the political influences of the Habsburg monarchy on European music, or perhaps unearth new data on the fly-over republican states through an ethnomusicological lens. Want to get into technology? There is probably no more fun way than to do a PhD in sonic arts, creating complex technical-marvel music machines and writing music software that lands you a job with one of the many music software companies (or start your own). Maybe you want a teaching career? Sure - it's hard work to get tenure but what could be more rewarding than talking and thinking about music all day. Sports or therapy? Music therapy in combination with Feldenkrais or Alexander techniques gets you into a more interesting, unique field than just standard therapy. I could think of a lot more examples how a music school could really supplement the career of anyone - it's the fault of the music school that focuses on looking backwards and only celebrating chamber/choir music. Many schools are realising that's not helpful anymore and while believe me, I love a great rendering of an 18th century opera, you can get a lot more out of music school than that.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]