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"quite liberal and tolerant" The Bay has a kind of a specific moral view, which is sometimes applied in a fairly authoritarian manner. It's not very Liberal,

"quite liberal and tolerant" The Bay has a kind of a specific moral view, which is sometimes applied in a fairly authoritarian manner. It's not very Liberal, and arguably not hugely tolerant either. For example, all sorts of activities which are common and normal in the rest of America and the world are either frowned upon, or considered fully uncool in the Bay. Things like fishing. Hunting. Most sports. Talking about sports. Twangy accents. Country music. This is a long list. For example, promoting vegetarianism, and frowning upon those who are not (or forbidding it) as is now the case at 'We Work' - isn't remotely liberal. (Can you imagine if Texas Oil required their employees to be meat eaters?) Though most of that won't get you in trouble in the Bay, it puts you in the 'out club' in much the same way that being a little bit to colourful or effete might put you in the 'out club' in Texas. FYI - Having lived both in Texas and The Bay, I'm confident in saying that in the vast, vast majority of Texas you have nothing to worry about if you don't fit the Texas profile though in some legal cases it might be tricky. You just won't be 'cool' in their sense. There are tons of out gay people in Texas, working in all sorts of industries. It's not as good as the Bay, surely, but it's not hell on earth. When I was in Texas, the ladies in the office would not have it that a young single man would be alone for Thanksgiving. They put myself and the other ex-pats into homes for the holiday dinner. In Cali, nobody really cared about Thanksgiving, and certainly did not think to care that some people might be alone during this festive time. Both areas have a general view of how things ought to be, and that view is applied sometimes in an authoritarian manner, and neither of them are hugely tolerant or Liberal. They have 'their ways'.

NotSammyHagar 8y ago
No one in the bay area cares about fishing.
solidsnack9000 8y ago
The Bay has a kind of a specific moral view, which is sometimes applied in a fairly authoritarian manner. ... For example, all sorts of activities which are common and normal in the rest of America and the world are either frowned upon, or considered fully uncool in the Bay. Things like fishing. Hunting. Most sports. Talking about sports. Twangy accents. Country music. This is a long list. So true.
- JPKab 8y ago
  Twangy accent here. Truer than I like to admit.
- amazingman 8y ago
  To be fair, pro sports are an obvious waste of valuable time and attention. Personally, I’d rather actually connect with someone (or not) than use such mindlessness as a social crutch. I don’t find the extremely common phenomenon of people who don’t like sports forcing themselves to pretend they do for career-related reasons to be particularly healthy, either.
  - sonnyblarney 8y ago
    "To be fair, pro sports are an obvious waste of valuable time and attention." Ha ha ha - this is so funny. If this comment is not satire, then I think I just made my point! I hope that readers here realize how fairly uncommon (and elitist, i.e. everyone is obviously wasting their time) this kind of statement is. Surely, a lot of people don't like pro-sports, but most are not so antagonist about it. My gosh, if you want to connect with people from anywhere, the first thing you can do is talk about sports! I only wish I cared about sports, it would be so much easier on sales calls and hanging out with regular people!
    - fierro 8y ago
      pretty sure that was a joke
    - amazingman 8y ago
      >My gosh, if you want to connect with people from anywhere, the first thing you can do is talk about sports! Exactly the social crutch I was lamenting. This phenomenon is indeed real, and it’s pathological.
  - cm2012 8y ago
    lol man. I don't watch sports but I guess you don't play video games, watch netflix, etc.? All are equally wastes of time.
fierro 8y ago
"""It's not very Liberal, and arguably not hugely tolerant either. For example, all sorts of activities which are common and normal in the rest of America and the world are either frowned upon, or considered fully uncool in the Bay. Things like fishing. Hunting. Most sports. Talking about sports. Twangy accents. Country music. This is a long list.""" Sorry, this isn't the kind of tolerance I was talking about. You're missing my point if you thought that I meant the Bay Area is a bunch an unopinionated amoeba. The Bay Area is just as entitled to not prefer country music as the South is to prefer it. I don't think liking country music in the Bay Area will cause any sane, reasonable person to treat you differently or not be your friend. (also, the statement "the Bay Area is not very liberal" may be changing slowly from an attitudinal perspective, but certainly that statement does not bear out in the polls) Your point is well taken though. You're right that both areas have general views about how things ought to be. The main difference that I think most Californians/PNWs really care about are the differences in views relating to social issues, human rights, and tolerance from a governmental and legal perspective. Thinking that fishing is not cool is a little different than your government trying to ban same sex marriage, for example. And thinking hunting is not cool is different than living somewhere that witch hunts immigrants.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  " I don't think liking country music in the Bay Area will cause any sane, reasonable person to treat you differently or not be your friend." It absolutely will. If you hunt, or own a gun or into 'gun sports' it will 100% affect who your friends are. Did you hear about the employee outrage when Zuck killed is own lamb for passover (or whichever festival it was, I'm not knowledgable). Do you really think that being a 'hunter' won't affect your status at 'WeWork' - a company that enforces vegetarianism? Among a whole bunch of other values? Listening to Country Music and driving a pickup? Not cool in the Bay - unless it's hipster/ironic. If you are 'openly' Christian, it will likely affect who your friends are as well. These are not so much conscious thoughts people make, or outright judgements (in some cases they are) - but it will lose you a lot of points on the spectrum of social hierarchy. I interviewed at a FANG once and the interviewer was interested in the band that I played in and asked what kind of music we played. It was a very long time ago ... and I suppose my answers were not hip enough for him because he obviously was not impressed. Social circles, companies/startups, clubs, interests - these are all very intermixed as sad as it may be, we make judgements on these thing in life and in business. ""the Bay Area is not very liberal" may be changing slowly from an attitudinal perspective, but certainly that statement does not bear out in the polls"" I mean liberal by classical definition. You seem to be referring to the American pop-culture political definition of 'Liberal' - which frankly has very little meaning, or more like 'left wing'. So yes, of course the Valley and Cali are fairly 'Liberal' in the pop-culture political sense and will be forever, but they are not very 'liberal' in the classical sense (though the valley has a history of being a little libertarian, which is a little more like classical liberalism, but still different). In Texas, they really don't care who you are overall. But if you are gay, or effete, or a little weird, you might not be in the cool club. If you were the QB on your high school team, you get bonus points. If you 'never miss Church' it might get you a few bonus points in some places. In Cali, sure, you can do or be as you please, pretty much. If you drive a big truck, speak with a twang, talk about football or fishing a lot ... you're not going to be in the cool club. Being a vegan, or having a really humbling 'rags-to-riches ethnic minority from another country story' ... will give you big empathetic bonus points. If you belong to a 'Social Justice Cause', or 'attend burning man' - it might get you some bonus points. In both Cali and Texas - people feel a weird need to push those behaviours on others, maybe as a function of virtue signalling, and to also shame a little bit people that don't follow suit, i.e. 'if you don't support my SJW cause/attend Church you must be immoral'. Everywhere in the world is like this to some extent, but this is slightly more common in America I think than the rest of the world, particularly bolder, more aspirational regions that are a little 'newer' and have a stronger sense of ideological identity - like Texas and Cali!
kyleomalley 8y ago
I’ve had no trouble finding fishing and hunting partners in SV. I’ve never personally felt anyone hugely opposed to hunting either, unless it some how conflicted with how they feed themselves. I do find it interesting thatduck hunting during season can be done just a maybe a mile from the Yahoo/Google Cloud buildings in north Sunnyvale. I have frequently seen full camo duck hunters carrying shotguns from the water treatment center walking out to the duck blinds. As far as sports, your average engineer isn’t typically consumed by them, but half the engineers I’ve worked with from the bay seem to be fans of whichever team is doing great at the moment (warriors or giants or often the sharks). I’ve also done more sport fishing and crabbing here than anywhere else I’ve lived. I think the huge numbers of foreign residents have a large impact on the overall culture compared to say rural Texas, but it doesn’t seem too far off imho. One other point is just how many super packed country concerts there are at shoreline. Tl;dr San Jose/SV is just as country music/sports obsessed /game and fish oriented as the rest of the country (if you don’t surround yourself with non-North American engineers for eg). Edit: on mobile, autocorrect at word.
- dev_dull 8y ago
  > I’ve never personally felt anyone hugely opposed to hunting either, unless it some how conflicted with how they feed themselves. I think if you decided to test this theory, with say a picture of yourself with a buck on Facebook or twitter, you’d find it to be untrue. A lot of SV may not be extreme one way or another, but for employees at large tech companies there’s a definitely and strong bias.
- cco 8y ago
  Protip if anybody wants to talk sports at a tech company and is finding the technical teams lacking, head on over to the Go-to-Market teams; knowing what's going on in whatever sport is in season is basically in their job description.
amazingman 8y ago
Contrary to what seems to be popular perception, Texas is not “the South”. The South is the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and _maybe_ the Virginias and Kentucky.
- NotSammyHagar 8y ago
  The south is the states that lost the civil war. It goes past Mississippi.
  - gergi 8y ago
    That's only one way of defining it. Without context, it can mean many different things.
- heartbreak 8y ago
  The capital of the Confederacy was in Virginia, but you’ve decided that it’s not in the South. Let’s try Wikipedia instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States
  - gergi 8y ago
    Geographically, sure. However, "the South" can mean a lot of different things. e.g. "the South" culturally does not apply to much of Virginia, Texas, or Florida.
    - heartbreak 8y ago
      As clearly stated in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article I linked, you’re confusing the “Deep South” and the “South.”
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  That would be the deep south. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South
- 8y ago
dev_dull 8y ago
> In Cali, nobody really cared about Thanksgiving, and certainly did not think to care that some people might be alone during this festive time. So true. The west coast in general seems it would rather spend a holiday alone with the internet rather than with other people. Being west coaster, I almost didn’t know what to do when strangers would start a random conversation with me. I’m only used to homeless people doing that here.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

NotSammyHagar 8y ago

No one in the bay area cares about fishing.

solidsnack9000 8y ago

The Bay has a kind of a specific moral view, which is sometimes applied in a fairly authoritarian manner. ... For example, all sorts of activities which are common and normal in the rest of America and the world are either frowned upon, or considered fully uncool in the Bay. Things like fishing. Hunting. Most sports. Talking about sports. Twangy accents. Country music. This is a long list. So true.

JPKab 8y ago
Twangy accent here. Truer than I like to admit.
amazingman 8y ago
To be fair, pro sports are an obvious waste of valuable time and attention. Personally, I’d rather actually connect with someone (or not) than use such mindlessness as a social crutch. I don’t find the extremely common phenomenon of people who don’t like sports forcing themselves to pretend they do for career-related reasons to be particularly healthy, either.
- sonnyblarney 8y ago
  "To be fair, pro sports are an obvious waste of valuable time and attention." Ha ha ha - this is so funny. If this comment is not satire, then I think I just made my point! I hope that readers here realize how fairly uncommon (and elitist, i.e. everyone is obviously wasting their time) this kind of statement is. Surely, a lot of people don't like pro-sports, but most are not so antagonist about it. My gosh, if you want to connect with people from anywhere, the first thing you can do is talk about sports! I only wish I cared about sports, it would be so much easier on sales calls and hanging out with regular people!
  - fierro 8y ago
    pretty sure that was a joke
  - amazingman 8y ago
    >My gosh, if you want to connect with people from anywhere, the first thing you can do is talk about sports! Exactly the social crutch I was lamenting. This phenomenon is indeed real, and it’s pathological.
- cm2012 8y ago
  lol man. I don't watch sports but I guess you don't play video games, watch netflix, etc.? All are equally wastes of time.

fierro 8y ago

"""It's not very Liberal, and arguably not hugely tolerant either. For example, all sorts of activities which are common and normal in the rest of America and the world are either frowned upon, or considered fully uncool in the Bay. Things like fishing. Hunting. Most sports. Talking about sports. Twangy accents. Country music. This is a long list.""" Sorry, this isn't the kind of tolerance I was talking about. You're missing my point if you thought that I meant the Bay Area is a bunch an unopinionated amoeba. The Bay Area is just as entitled to not prefer country music as the South is to prefer it. I don't think liking country music in the Bay Area will cause any sane, reasonable person to treat you differently or not be your friend. (also, the statement "the Bay Area is not very liberal" may be changing slowly from an attitudinal perspective, but certainly that statement does not bear out in the polls) Your point is well taken though. You're right that both areas have general views about how things ought to be. The main difference that I think most Californians/PNWs really care about are the differences in views relating to social issues, human rights, and tolerance from a governmental and legal perspective. Thinking that fishing is not cool is a little different than your government trying to ban same sex marriage, for example. And thinking hunting is not cool is different than living somewhere that witch hunts immigrants.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
" I don't think liking country music in the Bay Area will cause any sane, reasonable person to treat you differently or not be your friend." It absolutely will. If you hunt, or own a gun or into 'gun sports' it will 100% affect who your friends are. Did you hear about the employee outrage when Zuck killed is own lamb for passover (or whichever festival it was, I'm not knowledgable). Do you really think that being a 'hunter' won't affect your status at 'WeWork' - a company that enforces vegetarianism? Among a whole bunch of other values? Listening to Country Music and driving a pickup? Not cool in the Bay - unless it's hipster/ironic. If you are 'openly' Christian, it will likely affect who your friends are as well. These are not so much conscious thoughts people make, or outright judgements (in some cases they are) - but it will lose you a lot of points on the spectrum of social hierarchy. I interviewed at a FANG once and the interviewer was interested in the band that I played in and asked what kind of music we played. It was a very long time ago ... and I suppose my answers were not hip enough for him because he obviously was not impressed. Social circles, companies/startups, clubs, interests - these are all very intermixed as sad as it may be, we make judgements on these thing in life and in business. ""the Bay Area is not very liberal" may be changing slowly from an attitudinal perspective, but certainly that statement does not bear out in the polls"" I mean liberal by classical definition. You seem to be referring to the American pop-culture political definition of 'Liberal' - which frankly has very little meaning, or more like 'left wing'. So yes, of course the Valley and Cali are fairly 'Liberal' in the pop-culture political sense and will be forever, but they are not very 'liberal' in the classical sense (though the valley has a history of being a little libertarian, which is a little more like classical liberalism, but still different). In Texas, they really don't care who you are overall. But if you are gay, or effete, or a little weird, you might not be in the cool club. If you were the QB on your high school team, you get bonus points. If you 'never miss Church' it might get you a few bonus points in some places. In Cali, sure, you can do or be as you please, pretty much. If you drive a big truck, speak with a twang, talk about football or fishing a lot ... you're not going to be in the cool club. Being a vegan, or having a really humbling 'rags-to-riches ethnic minority from another country story' ... will give you big empathetic bonus points. If you belong to a 'Social Justice Cause', or 'attend burning man' - it might get you some bonus points. In both Cali and Texas - people feel a weird need to push those behaviours on others, maybe as a function of virtue signalling, and to also shame a little bit people that don't follow suit, i.e. 'if you don't support my SJW cause/attend Church you must be immoral'. Everywhere in the world is like this to some extent, but this is slightly more common in America I think than the rest of the world, particularly bolder, more aspirational regions that are a little 'newer' and have a stronger sense of ideological identity - like Texas and Cali!

kyleomalley 8y ago

I’ve had no trouble finding fishing and hunting partners in SV. I’ve never personally felt anyone hugely opposed to hunting either, unless it some how conflicted with how they feed themselves. I do find it interesting thatduck hunting during season can be done just a maybe a mile from the Yahoo/Google Cloud buildings in north Sunnyvale. I have frequently seen full camo duck hunters carrying shotguns from the water treatment center walking out to the duck blinds. As far as sports, your average engineer isn’t typically consumed by them, but half the engineers I’ve worked with from the bay seem to be fans of whichever team is doing great at the moment (warriors or giants or often the sharks). I’ve also done more sport fishing and crabbing here than anywhere else I’ve lived. I think the huge numbers of foreign residents have a large impact on the overall culture compared to say rural Texas, but it doesn’t seem too far off imho. One other point is just how many super packed country concerts there are at shoreline. Tl;dr San Jose/SV is just as country music/sports obsessed /game and fish oriented as the rest of the country (if you don’t surround yourself with non-North American engineers for eg). Edit: on mobile, autocorrect at word.

dev_dull 8y ago
> I’ve never personally felt anyone hugely opposed to hunting either, unless it some how conflicted with how they feed themselves. I think if you decided to test this theory, with say a picture of yourself with a buck on Facebook or twitter, you’d find it to be untrue. A lot of SV may not be extreme one way or another, but for employees at large tech companies there’s a definitely and strong bias.
cco 8y ago
Protip if anybody wants to talk sports at a tech company and is finding the technical teams lacking, head on over to the Go-to-Market teams; knowing what's going on in whatever sport is in season is basically in their job description.

amazingman 8y ago

Contrary to what seems to be popular perception, Texas is not “the South”. The South is the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee, Mississippi, and _maybe_ the Virginias and Kentucky.

NotSammyHagar 8y ago
The south is the states that lost the civil war. It goes past Mississippi.
- gergi 8y ago
  That's only one way of defining it. Without context, it can mean many different things.
heartbreak 8y ago
The capital of the Confederacy was in Virginia, but you’ve decided that it’s not in the South. Let’s try Wikipedia instead. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_United_States
- gergi 8y ago
  Geographically, sure. However, "the South" can mean a lot of different things. e.g. "the South" culturally does not apply to much of Virginia, Texas, or Florida.
  - heartbreak 8y ago
    As clearly stated in the first paragraph of the Wikipedia article I linked, you’re confusing the “Deep South” and the “South.”
Godel_unicode 8y ago
That would be the deep south. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_South
8y ago

dev_dull 8y ago

> In Cali, nobody really cared about Thanksgiving, and certainly did not think to care that some people might be alone during this festive time. So true. The west coast in general seems it would rather spend a holiday alone with the internet rather than with other people. Being west coaster, I almost didn’t know what to do when strangers would start a random conversation with me. I’m only used to homeless people doing that here.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]