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On the addiction relief program "Intervention" they showed a woman who said that she had to inject heroin immediately before this type of work to make it tolera

by zunzun 8y ago

On the addiction relief program "Intervention" they showed a woman who said that she had to inject heroin immediately before this type of work to make it tolerable, and she also said that she found most disgusting to her was that she had to pretend to enjoy what the clients did to her.

byoung2 8y ago
Change "heroin" to "cocaine" and you could tell the same story about many stockbrokers, so what's the point?
- steve_adams_86 8y ago
  Brokers typically have social mobility, and a choice in their type of work. Their sacrifice to make ends meet is incomparable to that of someone selling their body. I'm confused how you can draw a likeness between the two. Perhaps there are moral threads to pull, but I don't think they end up going to the same place.
  - AYBABTME 8y ago
    The way you imply that "selling their body" is worse than selling whatever part of themselves a stockbroker sells while doing drugs in order to work, really is kind of part of the problem. You put a moral judgement over which activity is more degrading than another. Consider this: what if people we're entitled to do whatever they want with their body, without having to abide to your standards and morals? How much of other peoples' morality do you want to be subjected to? Beware that others may have wildly different visions on what is degrading and what is not.
    - thomasz 8y ago
      Jesus Christ... It's almost certainly worse subjectively (seriously, how many stockbrokers would describe their line of work as degrading, compared to prostitutes!?) and objectively in terms of massively increased risks in terms of mental and physical health, exposure to sexual violence as well as facing ostracism from family, friends and society as a whole.
  - JDiculous 8y ago
    Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. Yes most prostitutes probably don't enjoy it, but they put up with it because the money is generally many multiples more than whatever they'd make at an office job and the hours are more flexible. If someone feels like they don't have any other job opportunities, then making prostitution illegal certainly won't fix that problem (nor does it eliminate prostitution - prostitution exists everywhere, making it illegal just means a prostitute can't go to the police if a customer takes advantage of her). Policing prostitution is a complete waste of taxpayer money.
    - aikah 8y ago
      i'm not sure on what planet you are living or you think you live. > Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... People are forced into sex work all the time, everywhere on the planet including in rich western countries, by various means,debt, violence,death threats,the "boyfriend" who is a pimp, even "curse" threats, especially young kids, and most johns don't give a damn. Women who refuse to submit to their pimps or the mafia are killed to set an example.
      - JDiculous 8y ago
        Obviously forced child prostitution and trafficking happens, nobody is denying that or defending such a repulsive practice, just like nobody denies or defends slavery or forced labor. If you actually read the comment I was responding to you'd see that we were talking about sex work in general. Why the hell can we not have a real conversation about sex work among consenting adults without somebody conflating it with slavery and child prostitution?
skookumchuck 8y ago
It's already illegal. How would making it legal make things worse for her?
DoreenMichele 8y ago
If you are really concerned about the horrors of prostitution, I recommend you work on the Glass Ceiling issue in non sex worker industries so women have more real options for well paid work.
- djrobstep 8y ago
  It's not clear to me how having more women CEOs will help solve the horrors of prostutution, perhaps you could explain further.
  - DoreenMichele 8y ago
    Women frequently turn to prostitution, stripping et al because it's the only well paid work they can readily get. If career success in other fields were easier to access for women, it would be easier to make other choices.
    - capobvious 8y ago
      Somehow I doubt most prostitutes turn to doing tricks because they had poor career advancement options. The problem is more likely that the skills they have do not qualify them for well paying jobs.
      - cbhl 8y ago
        The way I see it, the problem is that people think women need skills to qualify for jobs in the first place. As a man, many of my first jobs I got simply because the boss thought I was a promising PFY and was convinced I'd learn everything I needed within the first few days. It's a double standard.
    - zaroth 8y ago
      This has become a trope. Women frequently turn to prostitution because it pays extremely well, too. Unemployment is 3.7%. Anyone remotely employable can get a job today, but especially women. Women made up ~47% of the workforce in 2017 and are on track to hold more jobs than men in a few years, even with a lower participation rate. Female unemployment rate trended significantly lower than male unemployment rate during the last recession. Women are the majority on college campuses, and earn a majority of bachelors, masters, and doctorate degrees. Women are paid the same for the same work, when they choose to focus on their careers as much as men are expected to. And women hold special legal status to take leave to have children (there is no Federal paternity leave in the US, however some states offer it). Career success has never been more achievable for women in particular. Inside and outside the specific field of prostitution.
tomc1985 8y ago
And for every one of those reports there is another of sex workers who find it empowering, profitable, and maybe even fun
- cespul 8y ago
  Surely that ratio is much higher than 1:1. The amount of camgirls having "fun" and independently successful escorts has to be relatively small compared to the amount of average sex workers, many of whom didn't exactly choose that life and don't find it to be very "empowering".
  - factsaresacred 8y ago
    Not sure if much higher. I do photography and spent time snapping (street photos!) some girls in the sex industry in Asia. For them it's mainly about money. They could get an office job but they - and I quote - "tried...don't like". These are countries with low unemployment, but also low pay, so sex work appeals as a lucrative (and less boring) alternative. Many of this women were single mothers and the money was sent home. Few, from what I could tell, used drugs. And all were very strong people - I think that line of work requires it. So in some parts of the world prostitution is just another job. Is this the same everywhere? Unfortunately not. And I'm sure the industry as a whole is filled with tales of sorrow.
  - th01www 8y ago
    Isn't that similar to all those people that wake up at 6 every morning to do the lowest of the lowest of jobs? The only difference is that their work is not related to sex.
  - tomc1985 8y ago
    Heaven forbid that someone actually enjoy the work they do with their bodies... or have we forgotten that all these activities are rooted in the giving and receiving of pleasure? There are advocacy groups out there campaigning for sex workers' rights, staffed by sex workers and former sex workers, and I would think that if the profession were really so bad for independent providers then groups like this either wouldn't exist or would have a very different character.
tomjen3 8y ago
That is an extreme case, and I hope that she gets another line of work more suited to her. But lets not forget that most people aren't happy being cleaners, servers, etc and do it entirely for the money. Nothing wrong with that, but in this world only a very small group is happy enough to love their job (and most people love only a part of it).

by zunzun 8y ago

byoung2 8y ago

Change "heroin" to "cocaine" and you could tell the same story about many stockbrokers, so what's the point?

steve_adams_86 8y ago
Brokers typically have social mobility, and a choice in their type of work. Their sacrifice to make ends meet is incomparable to that of someone selling their body. I'm confused how you can draw a likeness between the two. Perhaps there are moral threads to pull, but I don't think they end up going to the same place.
- AYBABTME 8y ago
  The way you imply that "selling their body" is worse than selling whatever part of themselves a stockbroker sells while doing drugs in order to work, really is kind of part of the problem. You put a moral judgement over which activity is more degrading than another. Consider this: what if people we're entitled to do whatever they want with their body, without having to abide to your standards and morals? How much of other peoples' morality do you want to be subjected to? Beware that others may have wildly different visions on what is degrading and what is not.
  - thomasz 8y ago
    Jesus Christ... It's almost certainly worse subjectively (seriously, how many stockbrokers would describe their line of work as degrading, compared to prostitutes!?) and objectively in terms of massively increased risks in terms of mental and physical health, exposure to sexual violence as well as facing ostracism from family, friends and society as a whole.
- JDiculous 8y ago
  Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. Yes most prostitutes probably don't enjoy it, but they put up with it because the money is generally many multiples more than whatever they'd make at an office job and the hours are more flexible. If someone feels like they don't have any other job opportunities, then making prostitution illegal certainly won't fix that problem (nor does it eliminate prostitution - prostitution exists everywhere, making it illegal just means a prostitute can't go to the police if a customer takes advantage of her). Policing prostitution is a complete waste of taxpayer money.
  - aikah 8y ago
    i'm not sure on what planet you are living or you think you live. > Everybody has a choice in their type of work, nobody is forced to be a prostitute. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_child_sex_abuse_ring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploit... People are forced into sex work all the time, everywhere on the planet including in rich western countries, by various means,debt, violence,death threats,the "boyfriend" who is a pimp, even "curse" threats, especially young kids, and most johns don't give a damn. Women who refuse to submit to their pimps or the mafia are killed to set an example.
    - JDiculous 8y ago
      Obviously forced child prostitution and trafficking happens, nobody is denying that or defending such a repulsive practice, just like nobody denies or defends slavery or forced labor. If you actually read the comment I was responding to you'd see that we were talking about sex work in general. Why the hell can we not have a real conversation about sex work among consenting adults without somebody conflating it with slavery and child prostitution?

skookumchuck 8y ago

It's already illegal. How would making it legal make things worse for her?

DoreenMichele 8y ago

If you are really concerned about the horrors of prostitution, I recommend you work on the Glass Ceiling issue in non sex worker industries so women have more real options for well paid work.

djrobstep 8y ago
It's not clear to me how having more women CEOs will help solve the horrors of prostutution, perhaps you could explain further.
- DoreenMichele 8y ago
  Women frequently turn to prostitution, stripping et al because it's the only well paid work they can readily get. If career success in other fields were easier to access for women, it would be easier to make other choices.
  - capobvious 8y ago
    Somehow I doubt most prostitutes turn to doing tricks because they had poor career advancement options. The problem is more likely that the skills they have do not qualify them for well paying jobs.
    - cbhl 8y ago
      The way I see it, the problem is that people think women need skills to qualify for jobs in the first place. As a man, many of my first jobs I got simply because the boss thought I was a promising PFY and was convinced I'd learn everything I needed within the first few days. It's a double standard.
  - zaroth 8y ago
    This has become a trope. Women frequently turn to prostitution because it pays extremely well, too. Unemployment is 3.7%. Anyone remotely employable can get a job today, but especially women. Women made up ~47% of the workforce in 2017 and are on track to hold more jobs than men in a few years, even with a lower participation rate. Female unemployment rate trended significantly lower than male unemployment rate during the last recession. Women are the majority on college campuses, and earn a majority of bachelors, masters, and doctorate degrees. Women are paid the same for the same work, when they choose to focus on their careers as much as men are expected to. And women hold special legal status to take leave to have children (there is no Federal paternity leave in the US, however some states offer it). Career success has never been more achievable for women in particular. Inside and outside the specific field of prostitution.

tomc1985 8y ago

And for every one of those reports there is another of sex workers who find it empowering, profitable, and maybe even fun

cespul 8y ago
Surely that ratio is much higher than 1:1. The amount of camgirls having "fun" and independently successful escorts has to be relatively small compared to the amount of average sex workers, many of whom didn't exactly choose that life and don't find it to be very "empowering".
- factsaresacred 8y ago
  Not sure if much higher. I do photography and spent time snapping (street photos!) some girls in the sex industry in Asia. For them it's mainly about money. They could get an office job but they - and I quote - "tried...don't like". These are countries with low unemployment, but also low pay, so sex work appeals as a lucrative (and less boring) alternative. Many of this women were single mothers and the money was sent home. Few, from what I could tell, used drugs. And all were very strong people - I think that line of work requires it. So in some parts of the world prostitution is just another job. Is this the same everywhere? Unfortunately not. And I'm sure the industry as a whole is filled with tales of sorrow.
- th01www 8y ago
  Isn't that similar to all those people that wake up at 6 every morning to do the lowest of the lowest of jobs? The only difference is that their work is not related to sex.
- tomc1985 8y ago
  Heaven forbid that someone actually enjoy the work they do with their bodies... or have we forgotten that all these activities are rooted in the giving and receiving of pleasure? There are advocacy groups out there campaigning for sex workers' rights, staffed by sex workers and former sex workers, and I would think that if the profession were really so bad for independent providers then groups like this either wouldn't exist or would have a very different character.

tomjen3 8y ago

That is an extreme case, and I hope that she gets another line of work more suited to her. But lets not forget that most people aren't happy being cleaners, servers, etc and do it entirely for the money. Nothing wrong with that, but in this world only a very small group is happy enough to love their job (and most people love only a part of it).