5 ms·

NSA would've bugged the building without investing anything in that country. Not quite the same. The original exploiters of Africa are mad that China is invest

NSA would've bugged the building without investing anything in that country. Not quite the same. The original exploiters of Africa are mad that China is investing and building infrastructure on that continent, which will raise historically low prices.

yorwba 8y ago
Which prices will it raise? I'd expect the investment to lower prices for various raw materials China wants (because why would they invest to pay more in the end?) and consequently it would also lower prices for goods manufactured in China from those materials.
- IllogicalLogic 8y ago
  China entering the African market will raise the prices that domestic producers can sell products at, due to increased demand for resources in limited supply. In the end, more money will be made by the people who actually live and work there, not the international arbitraguers (if no shenanigans are added to the process).
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    This is when it's done by local workers and the wages rise. FYI, the majority of work is not done by local workers.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
They'll regret most Chinese investments, there's already a major backlash against the Chinese style "investment." You think China is doing this for Africa's good? China is enslaving them with a signature. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-s-belt-and-road-initiative-has-stalled https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_8532644.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_853264... NSA, if they haven't bugged them already, they already bought the IT staff with money. Third world countries are NSA's dream countries.
- IllogicalLogic 8y ago
  I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment required to attract both Chinese and non-Chinese investors and talent in the future. China has 10,000 years of documented history and this is a long game, they don't seem as interested in get rich quick schemes as some other civilizations. Time will tell.
  - cbnotfromthere 8y ago
    "I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes." This is an absurd comparison. A normal comparison of hypotheticals would be Europeans today vs. Chinese investments today. "China has 10,000 years of documented history" That's an even more absurd claim, wow! Actually it's LESS than half of your claimed period. "and this is a long game, they don't seem as interested in get rich quick schemes as some other civilizations." We're not discussing "civilizations" here, but governments. More specifically, the government of a dictatorship.
    - IllogicalLogic 8y ago
      - Why not take the last 500 years? China's trade was quite beneficial to its trading partners, Europe's was generally not. Anything less than 100 years, I would consider noise. - China has 10,000+ years of history (adding documented was a mistake) - Chinese culture plays too big of a role in decision making to ignore it in my opinion, you may disagree.
      - vezycash 8y ago
        The only thing i agree with you is this: Chinese building of African projects is CURRENTLY better than American, British, European or Worldbank loans. Loans are rarely ever used for the intended projects. Only, a minuscule part of the loaned funds are used to start the projects. The rest are split to offshore accounts, buy votes and grab more political power. Do the loaners know that loan will go to waste? Yes and they hope it does. Why? Neo-colonization & Neo-slavery - illusion of independence. Direct force is old fashioned and too costly. Subtle economic sabotage and puppetry is much better. With loans, you can threaten debtor countries to depreciate their currencies. Use your multinationals to evaporate domestic competition, stunting their competitiveness. Extract their raw materials and dictate the price. Place of corrupt individuals in key offices and more. Is China exploiting African countries? Absolutely. Ghanaian gold mining is basically Chinese. Yet, conventional loans are like carrots placed in front of a horse, pulling it just before it bites. Think Charlie brown. Chinese will build roads, bridges, airports, power plants instead of giving loans. Yes they'll give jobs to Chinese engineers but the project will be completed. - on time too. Sure Chinese milk the cow dry but it will eat and grow fatter, instead of leaner.

yorwba 8y ago

Which prices will it raise? I'd expect the investment to lower prices for various raw materials China wants (because why would they invest to pay more in the end?) and consequently it would also lower prices for goods manufactured in China from those materials.

IllogicalLogic 8y ago
China entering the African market will raise the prices that domestic producers can sell products at, due to increased demand for resources in limited supply. In the end, more money will be made by the people who actually live and work there, not the international arbitraguers (if no shenanigans are added to the process).
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  This is when it's done by local workers and the wages rise. FYI, the majority of work is not done by local workers.

onetimemanytime 8y ago

They'll regret most Chinese investments, there's already a major backlash against the Chinese style "investment." You think China is doing this for Africa's good? China is enslaving them with a signature. https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-s-belt-and-road-initiative-has-stalled https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-07-10/china-... http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_8532644.htm http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2009-08/05/content_853264... NSA, if they haven't bugged them already, they already bought the IT staff with money. Third world countries are NSA's dream countries.

IllogicalLogic 8y ago
I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes. At the end of the day, the roads, high-speed rail, bridges, harbors, etc... the Chinese build can't be removed from the continent even if the individual countries do reneg on debt. This could create the kind of stable environment required to attract both Chinese and non-Chinese investors and talent in the future. China has 10,000 years of documented history and this is a long game, they don't seem as interested in get rich quick schemes as some other civilizations. Time will tell.
- cbnotfromthere 8y ago
  "I expect the Chinese are less exploitative in their investment approach than the Europeans that acted in Africa (slavery and just outright theft was the modus operandi for centuries), yes." This is an absurd comparison. A normal comparison of hypotheticals would be Europeans today vs. Chinese investments today. "China has 10,000 years of documented history" That's an even more absurd claim, wow! Actually it's LESS than half of your claimed period. "and this is a long game, they don't seem as interested in get rich quick schemes as some other civilizations." We're not discussing "civilizations" here, but governments. More specifically, the government of a dictatorship.
  - IllogicalLogic 8y ago
    - Why not take the last 500 years? China's trade was quite beneficial to its trading partners, Europe's was generally not. Anything less than 100 years, I would consider noise. - China has 10,000+ years of history (adding documented was a mistake) - Chinese culture plays too big of a role in decision making to ignore it in my opinion, you may disagree.
    - vezycash 8y ago
      The only thing i agree with you is this: Chinese building of African projects is CURRENTLY better than American, British, European or Worldbank loans. Loans are rarely ever used for the intended projects. Only, a minuscule part of the loaned funds are used to start the projects. The rest are split to offshore accounts, buy votes and grab more political power. Do the loaners know that loan will go to waste? Yes and they hope it does. Why? Neo-colonization & Neo-slavery - illusion of independence. Direct force is old fashioned and too costly. Subtle economic sabotage and puppetry is much better. With loans, you can threaten debtor countries to depreciate their currencies. Use your multinationals to evaporate domestic competition, stunting their competitiveness. Extract their raw materials and dictate the price. Place of corrupt individuals in key offices and more. Is China exploiting African countries? Absolutely. Ghanaian gold mining is basically Chinese. Yet, conventional loans are like carrots placed in front of a horse, pulling it just before it bites. Think Charlie brown. Chinese will build roads, bridges, airports, power plants instead of giving loans. Yes they'll give jobs to Chinese engineers but the project will be completed. - on time too. Sure Chinese milk the cow dry but it will eat and grow fatter, instead of leaner.