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Not that different from the US, outside the hacker news bubble. I have a high schooler and let’s just say there’s a lot of attention to three numbers right now

Not that different from the US, outside the hacker news bubble. I have a high schooler and let’s just say there’s a lot of attention to three numbers right now - GPA, SAT, and ACT. Those numbers will have an outsized impact on my kid’s life. Granted though, that there are still paths to a happy life, but just a little more “alternative”.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ourmandave 8y ago
If you're looking at Parental Plus loans, those scores will have a big impact on your life as well. =(
- tedmiston 8y ago
  Do you mean that the Parent PLUS loans are directly dependent on test scores or something like lower standardized test scores → less scholarships going into school → more loans?
  - ourmandave 8y ago
    The latter. The amount of academic scholarship money a few points on the ACT makes is huge when you multiply by 4 (or more) years.
    - tedmiston 8y ago
      That makes sense but my personal experience is that I was able to obtain substantially more scholarship dollars post-starting college vs anything offered off of high school credentials. I graduated high school at the top of my class (< 1%) and had strong but not super competitive test scores. I went to a public state school so perhaps different for others.
hoaw 8y ago
I would agree. The west had a chance to reform their education systems to become different with the new information age, but most countries choose not to. In fact they have been going the other way. Today in most countries things like housing, grades, connections and insurance are even more important than it used to be. Turns out people really do not want to compete on similar terms in the open market.
- vfulco2 8y ago
  You nailed it. I continue to be shocked by the naivete of the West in all things Asia--work practices, education, rule of law, protection of IP, role of women in society. This after having lived and worked in Eastern China for 3 years. Those abroad just don't get it. And with such a behemoth as a world partner, they aren't changing fast nor need to.
existencebox 8y ago
FWIW: this was true even 15-20 years ago. I can't really speak comparatively, but I certainly was put in multiple years of SAT/ACT practice+drilling at home, and occasionally full summer courses. And despite coming out of that with nearly perfect scores my having a 3.3 GPA was considered so low as to preclude me from most of the top schools I applied to. (My admission rate was 3 schools out of 13, if I'm remembering right) This not to mention APs, extracurriculars, resume padding (although not on the same order of magnitude as OP) I'd be curious to when this trend started, but it was certainly well in motion when I squeezed through the system.
- com2kid 8y ago
  16 years ago, I went to community college, transfered to a 4 year, worked internships, graduated without debt, landed a job at Big Tech Co due to my internship experience. I never took the SAT. Now days? Possibly more important, depends on the major. I'd say for a lot of software roles, practical experience counts more than school. I've managed teams where I hired based on experience and personal drive, another manager hired based on university credentials. I had much better luck, my team easily out performed other teams that were better credentialed. Not to say the better universities don't do a better job at teaching. The fresh out of CMU grad who wrote a huge chunk of our OS, and who right after went to Google to work on their OS team, is a great example of the top students from the top universities being better. But I'll pit an average student from a top university against a "driven to succeed" student from any other schooling program. That said the one bootcamp grad (on another team) was super motivated, wrote code fast, got us shipping, but wow that code had to be replaced ASAP. :D Best dev I had was fresh out of school, maintained multiple community software projects outside of work, and learned something new about his profession every day.
Terretta 8y ago
Not just right now. In 80s, a perfect score on ACT resulted in full scholarships plus living stipend most anywhere you’d be interested in, offering a straightforward step up from rural America to the 1% track. That said, I don’t recall teaching to the test or test prep being a big thing then. Maybe what’s changing is the 1% working out how to keep that track in the family?
- daveFNbuck 8y ago
  The 1% has always had a different track to get their children into the best schools and careers. College admissions are tougher now because there are more people going to college but there aren't any new top universities.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ourmandave 8y ago

If you're looking at Parental Plus loans, those scores will have a big impact on your life as well. =(

tedmiston 8y ago
Do you mean that the Parent PLUS loans are directly dependent on test scores or something like lower standardized test scores → less scholarships going into school → more loans?
- ourmandave 8y ago
  The latter. The amount of academic scholarship money a few points on the ACT makes is huge when you multiply by 4 (or more) years.
  - tedmiston 8y ago
    That makes sense but my personal experience is that I was able to obtain substantially more scholarship dollars post-starting college vs anything offered off of high school credentials. I graduated high school at the top of my class (< 1%) and had strong but not super competitive test scores. I went to a public state school so perhaps different for others.

hoaw 8y ago

I would agree. The west had a chance to reform their education systems to become different with the new information age, but most countries choose not to. In fact they have been going the other way. Today in most countries things like housing, grades, connections and insurance are even more important than it used to be. Turns out people really do not want to compete on similar terms in the open market.

vfulco2 8y ago
You nailed it. I continue to be shocked by the naivete of the West in all things Asia--work practices, education, rule of law, protection of IP, role of women in society. This after having lived and worked in Eastern China for 3 years. Those abroad just don't get it. And with such a behemoth as a world partner, they aren't changing fast nor need to.

existencebox 8y ago

FWIW: this was true even 15-20 years ago. I can't really speak comparatively, but I certainly was put in multiple years of SAT/ACT practice+drilling at home, and occasionally full summer courses. And despite coming out of that with nearly perfect scores my having a 3.3 GPA was considered so low as to preclude me from most of the top schools I applied to. (My admission rate was 3 schools out of 13, if I'm remembering right) This not to mention APs, extracurriculars, resume padding (although not on the same order of magnitude as OP) I'd be curious to when this trend started, but it was certainly well in motion when I squeezed through the system.

com2kid 8y ago
16 years ago, I went to community college, transfered to a 4 year, worked internships, graduated without debt, landed a job at Big Tech Co due to my internship experience. I never took the SAT. Now days? Possibly more important, depends on the major. I'd say for a lot of software roles, practical experience counts more than school. I've managed teams where I hired based on experience and personal drive, another manager hired based on university credentials. I had much better luck, my team easily out performed other teams that were better credentialed. Not to say the better universities don't do a better job at teaching. The fresh out of CMU grad who wrote a huge chunk of our OS, and who right after went to Google to work on their OS team, is a great example of the top students from the top universities being better. But I'll pit an average student from a top university against a "driven to succeed" student from any other schooling program. That said the one bootcamp grad (on another team) was super motivated, wrote code fast, got us shipping, but wow that code had to be replaced ASAP. :D Best dev I had was fresh out of school, maintained multiple community software projects outside of work, and learned something new about his profession every day.

Terretta 8y ago

Not just right now. In 80s, a perfect score on ACT resulted in full scholarships plus living stipend most anywhere you’d be interested in, offering a straightforward step up from rural America to the 1% track. That said, I don’t recall teaching to the test or test prep being a big thing then. Maybe what’s changing is the 1% working out how to keep that track in the family?

daveFNbuck 8y ago
The 1% has always had a different track to get their children into the best schools and careers. College admissions are tougher now because there are more people going to college but there aren't any new top universities.