4 ms·

Unless scientists start collectively taking responsibility for the state of the world in which they live, I don't anticipate quick change. Everyone has a choic

Unless scientists start collectively taking responsibility for the state of the world in which they live, I don't anticipate quick change. Everyone has a choice, even scientists who disempower themselves by telling themselves they don't. Learning to stand up for one's self, individually and collectively, can be much harder work than ins and outs of everyday living, especially when it comes to standing up to authoritarian states/industries. I can trust my fellow scientists to pull together. We shall overcome.

dorchadas 8y ago
I mean, if your future career and livelihood depends on you doing something, odds are you don't really have a choice. Now, maybe the few tenure professors can do something, but non-tenured ones don't really have many options.
- crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
  I always have a choice, even if it's one I may not like. It may require my career being put on pause so I can conduct my research without such pressures because I recognize Science as a greater purpose. I choose my values and make decisions based on those. My life is infinitely more joyful and free as a result. I used tell myself about not having a choice (a logical fallacy, btw). Then I admitted to myself some choices are harder than others and I can't expect anyone to change their life for the sake of preserving my values. The beautiful thing I never heard anyone mention in the past about living true to my values: when I choose to stick by my values without having a plan for the future, it's immediately easier for me to come up with a plan! That's super tricky and requires being comfortable with uncertainty, which idealized Science is a practice in accepting, though the current climate doesn't really reflect that. Scientists could benefit from researching and practicing empowerment.
  - janoc 8y ago
    facepalm Try to build a science career when you are living from the slave wages and short term contracts most universities give to grad students and postdocs. Oh and that doesn't even mention student debt, in case you are in a country where you had to take a loan and pay tuition. Also, if you don't publish e.g. 2 major papers per year, then your career will be certainly put on pause for you - permanently. There is pretty much no way to get back unless you have a list of current publications on your CV. Dude, please, before trying to lecture someone about moral choices, at least try to research the subject and the conditions in which most of the research is done. For your information, most of the work is not done by the tenured professors who can afford to take e.g. a year of sabbatical to ponder their values because their employment is secure. The professor is there to raise funding and to do management work, in the most cases they are only signing their name on work produced by the nontenured staff who certainly doesn't have any of those luxuries.
    - srslyhere 8y ago
      janoc this is a (correct) description of a corrupted system. It is possible to do research and not to bend to these rules, at least in mathematics. Publishing in closed journals limits the dissemination of the work. Moreover peer review is not as rigorous as replication or validation of work which is public, related discussion today on HN [0]. Why should I take seriously a researcher who puts carrier over public validation? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18364518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18364518
    - crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
      It isn't my intent to lecture, but to speak my truth. I don't presume to speak for others; I simply know my experience taking disempowering stances in the past and am sharing that perspective because nobody ever told me I could live life the way I am now. I found this path through my own privileged sabbatical from the world as I recovered from porn/gaming/media/sex/love/sugar/anxiety/information addiction on my parents' dime. I don't think such a break from the world is required to break from societal programming because it's possible for someone to learn from my experience if they're open to doing so. I'm building my science "career" outside of academia for these reasons. I put "career" in quotes because I'm not sure if this word fits for me: science is part of my personal spirituality, ie. how I connect with the world around me & I don't know how you define career. I don't need academia for sustainable living because I've worked hard to develop a giving and supportive community. We share a lot of our things and expenses. It's most certainly not the norm and took a lot of work to abandon the scarcity mentalities of the world, especially around money. It's my intention to share how I live and what I've learned from it, and not to tell anyone how to live. I'm saying everyone literally has a choice every moment, even when there's a gun to their head. I don't fault or judge anyone for their decisions in the face of coercive systems. I had to realize I can have everything I need without using money and that took me decades of struggling within these highly codependent systems before realizing I could trust myself and others to meet my needs. I still use money because some things are harder to share than others in a small town of 9000, like gasoline. Interdependent living requires massive mental shifts from cultural norms. I'm pursuing my career without a single degree to my name and am loving every moment of it. I'm more privileged and free than most people, despite the little money I have. Several of my friends are doing the same. Some come from privileged families, some don't. Freedom from money is possible and hard af. It doesn't require not having any or giving what you have away. There's always another way. When I choose to believe there isn't, science says (& my experience confirms) I'm engaging cognitive biases in my brain/mind that'll keep me from seeing alternative paths. This led me to realize learning to choose my beliefs wisely is a skill progression necessary for crafting the life I want for myself. I like to say "there's no wrong ways, only long ways." I think I've figured out quicker ways to achieve internal changes leading to dramatic external effects than society teaches/enables/encourages. In the future, they may wind up being long ways. If you choose to not believe anything I'm saying or otherwise dismiss it as lecturing or whatever, ok. You do you & I'll do me. In the meantime, citizen science exists. I invite the refugees of capitalist academia's psychosocial enslavement to free themselves of their bonds and transform into more free researchers.

dorchadas 8y ago

I mean, if your future career and livelihood depends on you doing something, odds are you don't really have a choice. Now, maybe the few tenure professors can do something, but non-tenured ones don't really have many options.

crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
I always have a choice, even if it's one I may not like. It may require my career being put on pause so I can conduct my research without such pressures because I recognize Science as a greater purpose. I choose my values and make decisions based on those. My life is infinitely more joyful and free as a result. I used tell myself about not having a choice (a logical fallacy, btw). Then I admitted to myself some choices are harder than others and I can't expect anyone to change their life for the sake of preserving my values. The beautiful thing I never heard anyone mention in the past about living true to my values: when I choose to stick by my values without having a plan for the future, it's immediately easier for me to come up with a plan! That's super tricky and requires being comfortable with uncertainty, which idealized Science is a practice in accepting, though the current climate doesn't really reflect that. Scientists could benefit from researching and practicing empowerment.
- janoc 8y ago
  facepalm Try to build a science career when you are living from the slave wages and short term contracts most universities give to grad students and postdocs. Oh and that doesn't even mention student debt, in case you are in a country where you had to take a loan and pay tuition. Also, if you don't publish e.g. 2 major papers per year, then your career will be certainly put on pause for you - permanently. There is pretty much no way to get back unless you have a list of current publications on your CV. Dude, please, before trying to lecture someone about moral choices, at least try to research the subject and the conditions in which most of the research is done. For your information, most of the work is not done by the tenured professors who can afford to take e.g. a year of sabbatical to ponder their values because their employment is secure. The professor is there to raise funding and to do management work, in the most cases they are only signing their name on work produced by the nontenured staff who certainly doesn't have any of those luxuries.
  - srslyhere 8y ago
    janoc this is a (correct) description of a corrupted system. It is possible to do research and not to bend to these rules, at least in mathematics. Publishing in closed journals limits the dissemination of the work. Moreover peer review is not as rigorous as replication or validation of work which is public, related discussion today on HN [0]. Why should I take seriously a researcher who puts carrier over public validation? [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18364518 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18364518
  - crawfordcomeaux 8y ago
    It isn't my intent to lecture, but to speak my truth. I don't presume to speak for others; I simply know my experience taking disempowering stances in the past and am sharing that perspective because nobody ever told me I could live life the way I am now. I found this path through my own privileged sabbatical from the world as I recovered from porn/gaming/media/sex/love/sugar/anxiety/information addiction on my parents' dime. I don't think such a break from the world is required to break from societal programming because it's possible for someone to learn from my experience if they're open to doing so. I'm building my science "career" outside of academia for these reasons. I put "career" in quotes because I'm not sure if this word fits for me: science is part of my personal spirituality, ie. how I connect with the world around me & I don't know how you define career. I don't need academia for sustainable living because I've worked hard to develop a giving and supportive community. We share a lot of our things and expenses. It's most certainly not the norm and took a lot of work to abandon the scarcity mentalities of the world, especially around money. It's my intention to share how I live and what I've learned from it, and not to tell anyone how to live. I'm saying everyone literally has a choice every moment, even when there's a gun to their head. I don't fault or judge anyone for their decisions in the face of coercive systems. I had to realize I can have everything I need without using money and that took me decades of struggling within these highly codependent systems before realizing I could trust myself and others to meet my needs. I still use money because some things are harder to share than others in a small town of 9000, like gasoline. Interdependent living requires massive mental shifts from cultural norms. I'm pursuing my career without a single degree to my name and am loving every moment of it. I'm more privileged and free than most people, despite the little money I have. Several of my friends are doing the same. Some come from privileged families, some don't. Freedom from money is possible and hard af. It doesn't require not having any or giving what you have away. There's always another way. When I choose to believe there isn't, science says (& my experience confirms) I'm engaging cognitive biases in my brain/mind that'll keep me from seeing alternative paths. This led me to realize learning to choose my beliefs wisely is a skill progression necessary for crafting the life I want for myself. I like to say "there's no wrong ways, only long ways." I think I've figured out quicker ways to achieve internal changes leading to dramatic external effects than society teaches/enables/encourages. In the future, they may wind up being long ways. If you choose to not believe anything I'm saying or otherwise dismiss it as lecturing or whatever, ok. You do you & I'll do me. In the meantime, citizen science exists. I invite the refugees of capitalist academia's psychosocial enslavement to free themselves of their bonds and transform into more free researchers.