4 ms·

Its not just a label, its a regulated labeling term. Practically all food labelled as organic in US, EU and other regions has to be certified organic. This "mar

Its not just a label, its a regulated labeling term. Practically all food labelled as organic in US, EU and other regions has to be certified organic. This "marketing BS" idea is pure meme. https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-labeling-standards https://www.ams.usda.gov/grades-standards/organic-labeling-s...

toasterlovin 8y ago
It’s marketing BS in the sense that organic food still uses pesticides. I guarantee you that fact would be shocking to most consumers of organic foods.
- strainer 8y ago
  That "in a sense" is just making light of what is literally a falsehood and which introduced a string of them in the source comment: "It doesn't have any properly defined meaning ...." Organics pesticide use is much more selective and heavily controlled than standard regulations[1]. Your notion that most consumers of organic food have unrealistic expectations ( with no survey to support that ) is really just a statement of your own expectations. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/higher-antioxidant-and-lower-cadmium-concentrations-and-lower-incidence-of-pesticide-residues-in-organically-grown-crops-a-systematic-literature-review-and-metaanalyses/33F09637EAE6C4ED119E0C4BFFE2D5B1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...
  - zeroname 8y ago
    If the meaning is so "properly defined", then why do we have a self-described organic farmer in this thread, who says pesticides are off the table for him? Who decides which pesticides are okay, what is the criterion that everyone can agree on? Why are there differences across countries, if there is a proper definition of it? By the way, you can slap a "gluten free" label on table water and it'll be marketing BS, but at least "gluten free" has a properly defined meaning.
    - strainer 8y ago
      The organic farming regulations are professionally developed for decades, globally. US labeling options and regulations are officially defined [1,2] Very small scale producers like the farmer in this thread have some leeway - this is a feature of your national regulatory framework suiting small local markets, it is relevant to a tiny fraction of traded organic produce. > Who decides which pesticides are okay, what is the criterion that everyone can agree on? You know in this age of IT you can find answers to your questions. [3] > Why are there differences across countries, if there is a proper definition of it? Because it is a developed practical system, its not defined by dictionary definition - it is very complicated. Why are there differences across countries in safety regulations? How well is the term "safety" internationally defined ? Where did you get the idea that dictionary definition of "organic farming" should be able to completely explain the practice. What other well defined terms do that ?? Renewables, Genetic Engineering, Nuclear, Carbon reduction? I think this involves unwillingness to observe context and make sense of terms, for the sake of the sort of argument which is fun for supporting sport teams. [1] https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/labeling https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/labeling [2] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9874504b6f1025eb0e6b67cadf9d3b40&rgn=div6&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9874504b6f1... [3] https://www.ifoam.bio/en/about-us https://www.ifoam.bio/en/about-us
      - zeroname 8y ago
        > Because it is a developed practical system, its not defined by dictionary definition - it is very complicated. It's a bunch of semi-religious practices that were made up on the spot with no scientific basis whatsoever. For you to put it next to Genetic Engineering or Renewables is quite misleading.
        strainer 8y ago
        How long did you take looking at the references I provided, to answer the questions you asked me ?
        8y ago
  - toasterlovin 8y ago
    Look, have your opinions. But if you think organic is marketed solely as meaning that only non-synthetic pesticides are used, then you are wrong. The organic label means one thing. The marketing surrounding that label is another thing entirely. In the world of marketing, organic means healthier and pesticide free. But, in addition to being neither of those things, it is an utter disaster for the environment.
    - strainer 8y ago
      Ive not been giving my opinions - criticisms or expectations of organic farming: the global mature, studied, developed, alternative agricultural system. This is not opinion, it exists. Its actual flaws - thats a different class of discussion. When you just feel like giving an opinion, at least don't attach plain falsehoods, defended later by "in a sense" etc.
zeroname 8y ago
It's still marketing BS. Yes, governments certify and regulates marketing BS. The part that makes it BS has nothing to do with regulation. Homeopathy and Chiropractic are regulated and certified in various ways, they're still BS.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

toasterlovin 8y ago

It’s marketing BS in the sense that organic food still uses pesticides. I guarantee you that fact would be shocking to most consumers of organic foods.

strainer 8y ago
That "in a sense" is just making light of what is literally a falsehood and which introduced a string of them in the source comment: "It doesn't have any properly defined meaning ...." Organics pesticide use is much more selective and heavily controlled than standard regulations[1]. Your notion that most consumers of organic food have unrealistic expectations ( with no survey to support that ) is really just a statement of your own expectations. [1] https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/higher-antioxidant-and-lower-cadmium-concentrations-and-lower-incidence-of-pesticide-residues-in-organically-grown-crops-a-systematic-literature-review-and-metaanalyses/33F09637EAE6C4ED119E0C4BFFE2D5B1 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-n...
- zeroname 8y ago
  If the meaning is so "properly defined", then why do we have a self-described organic farmer in this thread, who says pesticides are off the table for him? Who decides which pesticides are okay, what is the criterion that everyone can agree on? Why are there differences across countries, if there is a proper definition of it? By the way, you can slap a "gluten free" label on table water and it'll be marketing BS, but at least "gluten free" has a properly defined meaning.
  - strainer 8y ago
    The organic farming regulations are professionally developed for decades, globally. US labeling options and regulations are officially defined [1,2] Very small scale producers like the farmer in this thread have some leeway - this is a feature of your national regulatory framework suiting small local markets, it is relevant to a tiny fraction of traded organic produce. > Who decides which pesticides are okay, what is the criterion that everyone can agree on? You know in this age of IT you can find answers to your questions. [3] > Why are there differences across countries, if there is a proper definition of it? Because it is a developed practical system, its not defined by dictionary definition - it is very complicated. Why are there differences across countries in safety regulations? How well is the term "safety" internationally defined ? Where did you get the idea that dictionary definition of "organic farming" should be able to completely explain the practice. What other well defined terms do that ?? Renewables, Genetic Engineering, Nuclear, Carbon reduction? I think this involves unwillingness to observe context and make sense of terms, for the sake of the sort of argument which is fun for supporting sport teams. [1] https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/labeling https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/organic/labeling [2] https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9874504b6f1025eb0e6b67cadf9d3b40&rgn=div6&view=text&node=7:3.1.1.9.32.7 https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=9874504b6f1... [3] https://www.ifoam.bio/en/about-us https://www.ifoam.bio/en/about-us
    - zeroname 8y ago
      > Because it is a developed practical system, its not defined by dictionary definition - it is very complicated. It's a bunch of semi-religious practices that were made up on the spot with no scientific basis whatsoever. For you to put it next to Genetic Engineering or Renewables is quite misleading.
      - strainer 8y ago
        How long did you take looking at the references I provided, to answer the questions you asked me ?
        8y ago
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Look, have your opinions. But if you think organic is marketed solely as meaning that only non-synthetic pesticides are used, then you are wrong. The organic label means one thing. The marketing surrounding that label is another thing entirely. In the world of marketing, organic means healthier and pesticide free. But, in addition to being neither of those things, it is an utter disaster for the environment.
  - strainer 8y ago
    Ive not been giving my opinions - criticisms or expectations of organic farming: the global mature, studied, developed, alternative agricultural system. This is not opinion, it exists. Its actual flaws - thats a different class of discussion. When you just feel like giving an opinion, at least don't attach plain falsehoods, defended later by "in a sense" etc.

zeroname 8y ago

It's still marketing BS. Yes, governments certify and regulates marketing BS. The part that makes it BS has nothing to do with regulation. Homeopathy and Chiropractic are regulated and certified in various ways, they're still BS.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]