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> Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you hav
by mabbo 8y ago
> Don't think about this in terms of just governments tracking you. Consider if you have any work emails containing company secrets in them. Consider if you have 2FA apps installed that you would use to unlock or change your work password. And since it was almost certainly the Chinese Intel/Military that helps Huawei and other companies, you can be sure that whatever information Huawei gets access to doesn't need to just help them out, but might help any other company the Chinese government wants to see succeed.
-Me, 3 weeks ago on this website
Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government.
- raprp 8y agoYes. Buy Apple or Google's phones instead. They would never leak customer data for the US government. Oh wait...
- dforrestwilson 8y agoOne government is vastly more transparent than the other. One company is government subsidized and the others are not. Hard to make a genuine privacy comparison with a straight face.
- sametmax 8y agoAlready forgot PRISM ? No wonder they do stuff like this when the public attention span is so small.
- bepotts 8y agoThe Snowden revelations caused tech companies to implement strong encryption for consumer facing communications. Apple, Google, and Facebook all offer encryption protocols that now piss off the US government and caused friction between the private and public sectors. People saying "but PRISM" have missed the past five years of US politics. Even Obama was getting mad at US tech.
- raprp 8y agoDo you have any proof despite statements that the entire internal surveillance programs of the NSA was dismantled or we should just believe because the US government would never lie to us?
- mtgx 8y agoYes and no. Google has all but abandoned the idea of end to end encryption for its users.
- hnmonkey 8y agoTechnically, while I do think that those companies have moved to stronger encryption over the past few years (which is a general trend I think) for consumer facing stuff, at least one of the changes that came out of PRISM was that Google started encrypting all of their communications in and out of their data centers (and in between) because PRISM was tapping at the datacenter level if I recall (something related to the note with the smiley face).
- gwhat 8y agoI always think of Ai Weiwei when considering just what's possible under the Chinese government and system. It's nice that my property won't be demolished and that I won't be kidnapped and beaten by police just because the government doesn't like my criticisms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ai_Weiwei Evan Osnos has some interesting pieces about China and Ai Weiwei: https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei-at-home-in-absentia https://www.newyorker.com/news/evan-osnos/ai-weiwei-at-home-...
- gdhbcc 8y agoAre we just ignoring the black site in Chicago?
- sametmax 8y agoEncryption doesn't prevent state actors to require a secret backdoor. Your naive point of view ignore 40 years of history of spying and power abuse. It's worrying the past is erased so easily in the people's mind. It allows terrible behavior to come back rocking again and again.
- TimLubbers 8y agoDon't hurt yourself reaching.
- Khaine 8y agoOne government is actually putting people into fucking camps[1], the other isn't. The scale in which the Chinese Government is bad dwarfs the bad things the US Government may do. No Government is perfect, but there are orders of magnitudes in difference between the badness of the US and that of the Chinese Government. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45812419 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-45812419
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Brybry 8y agoThe US does have both the highest incarceration rate and actual number of prisoners in the world. And ~22% of those are unsentenced detainees.
- amanaplanacanal 8y agoPlus they are used for essentially slave labor! Which everybody gets upset about when the Chinese do it, for some reason.
- oliloz 8y agoShowing that China is putting people into "fucking camps" does not say anything about how much I should trust the tech they sell to me.
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoChina putting some muslims, that may have been radicalizing, in camps to study Chinese history seems a lot better than the alternatives we employed in Iraq, Syria and Yemen.
- sametmax 8y agoSo one is cancer, the other one is a broken leg. Yeah, I prefer to have the broken leg. Doesn't mean it's a good thing to allow easily to break a leg. Americans have been watching too much TV stating how great their country is, they now repeat it again and again without thinking about it. I've never seen any other free country population doing that anywhere in the world, and I travel a lot. It's even weirder when I come in the Valley and see that from the inside. Boy are you delusional.
- sschueller 8y agoSecret Fisa courts aren't exactly transparent.
- hnmonkey 8y agoWhat kind of transparency would you like to see from them? For some things, like active secret investigations how would you expect them to act transparently and publicly?
- paulryanrogers 8y agoThey could disclose their warrants after cases have closed and there are no loose ends.
- dx87 8y agoThat'll never happen. Even if the case is closed and there are no loose ends for that particular case, it would still reveal the collection methods used, potentially impacting other foreign intel and FISA related cases.
- paulryanrogers 8y agoMaybe. They could probably redact the 'how' details. And even if not I wonder how many of their methods are truly secret. EDIT: typo
- gdhbcc 8y agoI expect all actions by the courts to be entirely public and freely available. If it can't be public, they can't act.
- monocasa 8y agoWhat? The CCP can be accused of many things, but a lack of transparency isn't one of them. They're easily one of the most transparent governments. They're just transparently authoritarian.
- bepotts 8y agoIt's popular to hate the US government and US tech companies, but the US government and US tech companies are far more ethical than the Chinese. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.
- hatersgonnahate 8y agoIt’s much more popular to hate China nowadays. Blame China to rob everything from us
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoAre they though? Did the Chinese government spend the last century toppling democratically elected governments and subjecting the populations to the horrors that followed purely for economic gain? I guess not.
- indemnity 8y agoHello whataboutism!
- raprp 8y agoCalling other peoples argument whataboutism is the get out of jail free card for double standards.
- pcardh0 8y agoThey subjected their own population to horrors, but at least it wasn't for economic gain.
- raprp 8y agoLets not mention the torture program, which the current head of CIA took part. Or the "humanitarian" invasion of Iraq, Afghanistan, Lybia and Syria without UN Security Council mandate. Especially Lybya, which is much more democratic now with it's slave markets. Or the protectionism that goes against the WTO treaties. Or by weaponizing the dollar, which is supposed to be the world's reserve currency, by the means of sanctions. Should I mentions the use of nuclear weapons and napalm against targets with dense civilian population close by? China, Russia and the US are all draconian regimes. Some target it's own people, other target people overseas and others target both. The difference is that one has holywood at it's side to show them saving the world time and time again from aliens, metheors and vile russians / nazis. And people just treat the US government as the good heart kid that makes a few mistakes.
- zarkov99 8y agoEven if that was true, as an American, I would much prefer leaking to my government over that of a Communist dictatorship hellbent on becoming the ruling super power.
- browsercoin 8y agoif I had to choose between the lesser of the two evils: America vs China I choose America. At least they don't harvest organs out of dissidents for liking Winnie the Pooh. You judge a culture by how they treat the bottom rung.
- IllogicalLogic 8y agoDifferent stages in development and the richest country in the world (right now) would obviously win. We will see what this answer will be in 50-100 years.
- sametmax 8y agoI got a one plus, and now i'm wondering... But let's be honest, iphones and android parts are manufactured in china. There are most probably a lot of spying hardware we don't know about that call the mother land.
- freehunter 8y agoDo you think Apple blindly trusts the hardware that comes from their factories? I have no evidence either way, but I would be very surprised if their hardware experts in the US didn't tear down and verify the parts that get shipped to them, like they did with the SuperMicro motherboards. The idea that there is a lot of spying hardware in an iPhone that Apple doesn't know about is an extraordinary claim.
- bordercases 8y ago> I have no evidence either way Should you blindly trust Apple's process?
- freehunter 8y agoIf someone is going to accuse a company of having third party spy chips in their phones, they'd better be ready to prove it. Especially if that company is known for their insanely strict (not very strict, actually insane) supply chain management and have been known to put suppliers into bankruptcy for not meeting the company's supply needs exactly (GTAT sapphire). Especially a company very recently in the news for having picked apart every chip on a server motherboard to find out if any of those chips were not in the BOM. I don't have to blindly trust anything to know the burden of that proof is on the person making that claim. If you're going to accuse that company of mismanaging their supply chain and compromising the security of their users and their products while crowing publicly otherwise, you'd better come with some evidence.
- bordercases 8y agoAssume innocence over guilt, assume guilt over innocence; false positives or false negatives. Where burden of proof stands depends on the kind of error you're attempting to minimize. In this case I don't think it's warranted to try and minimize the rate of error of accidentally not trusting even if you have had some trust before. It's because security is a hard, induction-based problem. You counter it with vigilance in the long-run. Ignoring local rumors with high potential impact adds up. Additionally unless you truly believe you can't be impacted by privacy theft or think your actions are so petty that they would never be useful to analyze by a bad actor; or, you additionally have Apple stock or some equivalent stake, I don't know why you wouldn't be willing to distrust vehemently. To me it seems like accidentally being wrong about Apple is not worse than any of those things.
- pcardh0 8y agoBut their product are so inexpensive compared to other vendors, and they seem to have the same exact features, right down to the bugs.
- Fnoord 8y ago2FA "apps" which are used on the same device are not really 2FA. Use a physical device instead of that.
- mabbo 8y agoI've seen 2FA apps that are used for logging into company non-mobile websites.
- squarefoot 8y ago"Don't buy Huawei hardware. Their incentives to help their customers is far less than their incentives to help their government." Every company in every country is going to jump if their government says them so. I wouldn't expect any telcos or phone manufacturers to act differently if they were paid or gag ordered to act against their customers.
- lawnchair_larry 8y agoWe already have proof of several American companies not doing this, and actually suing the government in response.