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What about people who can't afford it now, though? There are literally billions of them.

gambiting 8y ago
But for those people the food needs to be free, not cheaper - feeding them shit quality food just so they can afford it is the wrong solution as well. We need to be growing good quality food and those who can't afford it need to be given support to get it. Canned pasta and corn is not a solution just because it's cheap.
- TomMarius 8y ago
  What if we instead gave them means (technology) to grow it themselves and encouraged them to group in small communities that grow together? Aquaponics is getting more and more popular and can be very cheap. I imagine that a good "how to" guide and a small monetary donation could help a lot of people.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    The people who can't afford food are embedded in a corrupt society that stops anything structural from happening. Food is number one million on their list of needs, along with law and order.
  - Retra 8y ago
    You're not thinking like a poor person, you're thinking like a comfortably wealthy person. Poor people often don't have the time, energy, or mental well being to run organizations or take on another line of work. Money is a tool for overcoming barriers to cooperation. People who can't self-organize to cheaply produce food for survival will continue to not be able unless enough money is available.
    - sologoub 8y ago
      That’s not true - most of the time they just don’t know about alternatives. It’s not that they are not thinking about them, it’s that they literally don’t know what’s possible. In terms of growing your own food, poverty of post USSR Russia is an interesting case study. The concept of a “dacha” became hugely important in subsistence. In last years of USSR shops became empty in most regions. You literally could not buy food even if you had money. Limited rations were provided so people didn’t die of starvation. A lot of families turned to weekend farming. Usually not any kind of livestock, just vegetables. Potatoes, onions, garlic, cabbage, tomatoes, cucumbers and such. Pesticides were expensive, so not an option. Composting and dun from the villages who had livestock were primarily used. My grandparents weekend farm produced enough to feed several families and we often gave away or bartered extra sacks of potatos. In all, the land used for this was less than .2 acre. Worked by 2 adults part time with rudimentary tools more reminiscent of 18/19th century than a modern operation.
      - TomMarius 8y ago
        Same in the Czech Republic with my grandparents and basically the whole village where they lived.
- SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
  >But for those people the food needs to be free, not cheaper I wonder if anyone has ever starved when some government came in to make the food free? Edit: I wonder if I’m the only on that has seen HN move exponentially faster towards reddit in the last year?
- strken 8y ago
  Famines and food insecurity are usually caused by sudden unavailability rather than slowly rising costs, aren't they? The ongoing famine in Yemen seems to be the result of blockaded ports and disrupted agricultural infrastructure, and the most recent famines in Africa were the result of drought.
bordercases 8y ago
Population inflated. Do a steady "deleveraging" where you couple a decrease in food production with a decrease in population from birth control. I would also say "urbanization" but that generates other externalities and costs which interact closely with the biodiversity problem.

But for those people the food needs to be free, not cheaper - feeding them shit quality food just so they can afford it is the wrong solution as well. We need to be growing good quality food and those who can't afford it need to be given support to get it. Canned pasta and corn is not a solution just because it's cheap.

TomMarius 8y ago
What if we instead gave them means (technology) to grow it themselves and encouraged them to group in small communities that grow together? Aquaponics is getting more and more popular and can be very cheap. I imagine that a good "how to" guide and a small monetary donation could help a lot of people.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  The people who can't afford food are embedded in a corrupt society that stops anything structural from happening. Food is number one million on their list of needs, along with law and order.
- Retra 8y ago
  You're not thinking like a poor person, you're thinking like a comfortably wealthy person. Poor people often don't have the time, energy, or mental well being to run organizations or take on another line of work. Money is a tool for overcoming barriers to cooperation. People who can't self-organize to cheaply produce food for survival will continue to not be able unless enough money is available.
  - sologoub 8y ago
    That’s not true - most of the time they just don’t know about alternatives. It’s not that they are not thinking about them, it’s that they literally don’t know what’s possible. In terms of growing your own food, poverty of post USSR Russia is an interesting case study. The concept of a “dacha” became hugely important in subsistence. In last years of USSR shops became empty in most regions. You literally could not buy food even if you had money. Limited rations were provided so people didn’t die of starvation. A lot of families turned to weekend farming. Usually not any kind of livestock, just vegetables. Potatoes, onions, garlic, cabbage, tomatoes, cucumbers and such. Pesticides were expensive, so not an option. Composting and dun from the villages who had livestock were primarily used. My grandparents weekend farm produced enough to feed several families and we often gave away or bartered extra sacks of potatos. In all, the land used for this was less than .2 acre. Worked by 2 adults part time with rudimentary tools more reminiscent of 18/19th century than a modern operation.
    - TomMarius 8y ago
      Same in the Czech Republic with my grandparents and basically the whole village where they lived.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
>But for those people the food needs to be free, not cheaper I wonder if anyone has ever starved when some government came in to make the food free? Edit: I wonder if I’m the only on that has seen HN move exponentially faster towards reddit in the last year?
strken 8y ago
Famines and food insecurity are usually caused by sudden unavailability rather than slowly rising costs, aren't they? The ongoing famine in Yemen seems to be the result of blockaded ports and disrupted agricultural infrastructure, and the most recent famines in Africa were the result of drought.

bordercases 8y ago

Population inflated. Do a steady "deleveraging" where you couple a decrease in food production with a decrease in population from birth control. I would also say "urbanization" but that generates other externalities and costs which interact closely with the biodiversity problem.