3 ms·

I find this thought process unsettling. For one, ID is not a mutually exclusive endeavor. If a company has A, B, C and D. Adding E, in this case - ID, only add

I find this thought process unsettling. For one, ID is not a mutually exclusive endeavor. If a company has A, B, C and D. Adding E, in this case - ID, only adds to the value of the company. Good ID never diminishes it. I am comparing System76 with 70's IBM, Apple and Braun in my original comment. If IBM didn't pay attention to design - sure, they'd be successful probably. But ID has only added to their goodwill and brand name. Unfortunately, it is no longer true with IBM today. :-( Executives that pay attention to ID and its value create a direct unspoken visual link with their customers. Customers notice the smallest details, perfection in every aspect of the product and they realize & get the impression about company's dedication towards other non-ID related things. Stripe does this really well. It is even more critical for a physical product that you touch and feel. ID is sort of like a short-cut of communicating the abstract concept of quality to customers. It works brilliantly as a marketing tool as well as a tool to deliver actual measurable benefits to the customer (ease of use, clarity in operation, aesthetic appeal, etc.)

HeadsUpHigh 8y ago
Minimalist ID is by far the cheapest way to achieve good details. Mixing 2 or 3 materials together and getting them right is even harder. ID has been done to death and has stopped amusing me for years now. This is why I think the direction s76 is going is much, much more interesting. Wood on a desktop computer is a good idea( ignoring the execution), but a laptop with 2 or 3 materials mixing would be even better.
cbsmith 8y ago
Sigh. I guess I wasn't explicit enough. It turns out, if you are manufacturing original products for mass production, you are doing ID. So yes, there is no path to success manufacturing original products without doing ID. I wasn't implying one needn't have ID any more than your comment implies one needn't have engineering. What I was referring to your comment about "hire a top-notch industrial designer" to produce distinctive designs of impeccable taste. Yes, products with exceptional ID will sell in major ways. It turns out, that products that are exceptional in a lot of dimensions sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally inexpensive sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally marketed sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally well engineered sell in major ways. ...and if everyone is employing exceptional ID, then doing so yourself doesn't actually make your product exceptional. And no, customers don't "notice the smallest details, perfection in every aspect of the product". There are some products that certain customers fetishize and absolutely do notice this stuff, but the vast majority of products people interact with on a daily basis barely register. I agree that ID is a short cut for communicating quality to customers. Sometimes you shouldn't take the shortcut. Sometimes it's better to take the long way around. Great ID can work brilliantly as a marketing tool as well as a tool to deliver actual measurable benefits to the consumer. Great engineering can do the same. Having a unique value proposition (which I'd argue is System76's case) can do the same. There's more than one kind of market success and more than one path to market success.
- fermienrico 8y ago
  I think you have some valid points. There is a lot of crap out there today that doesn't have good ID and it sounds weird to say but doesn't need ID. If you're selling utilitarian objects, for example, construction materials: Nuts & Bolts, Screws, I-Beams, Dry wall, etc. None of that stuff needs any ID - as you said it would be all about whether the object functions or not. Good engineering is what it needs, I agree with you there. Don't you feel that there are a lot of products out there that are not designed well? They're just slapped together, molded shut and ready to mass market? ID would just be a one time NRE cost if they don't use expensive materials. If you get a chance, do catch the "Dieter Rams" documentary by Gary Hustwit. I thought it was amazing and you'd I think enjoy it.
  - cbsmith 8y ago
    "Don't you feel that there are a lot of products out there that are not designed well?" I do, but I feel the same way about engineering. Curse of high expectations.

HeadsUpHigh 8y ago

Minimalist ID is by far the cheapest way to achieve good details. Mixing 2 or 3 materials together and getting them right is even harder. ID has been done to death and has stopped amusing me for years now. This is why I think the direction s76 is going is much, much more interesting. Wood on a desktop computer is a good idea( ignoring the execution), but a laptop with 2 or 3 materials mixing would be even better.

cbsmith 8y ago

Sigh. I guess I wasn't explicit enough. It turns out, if you are manufacturing original products for mass production, you are doing ID. So yes, there is no path to success manufacturing original products without doing ID. I wasn't implying one needn't have ID any more than your comment implies one needn't have engineering. What I was referring to your comment about "hire a top-notch industrial designer" to produce distinctive designs of impeccable taste. Yes, products with exceptional ID will sell in major ways. It turns out, that products that are exceptional in a lot of dimensions sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally inexpensive sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally marketed sell in major ways. Products that are exceptionally well engineered sell in major ways. ...and if everyone is employing exceptional ID, then doing so yourself doesn't actually make your product exceptional. And no, customers don't "notice the smallest details, perfection in every aspect of the product". There are some products that certain customers fetishize and absolutely do notice this stuff, but the vast majority of products people interact with on a daily basis barely register. I agree that ID is a short cut for communicating quality to customers. Sometimes you shouldn't take the shortcut. Sometimes it's better to take the long way around. Great ID can work brilliantly as a marketing tool as well as a tool to deliver actual measurable benefits to the consumer. Great engineering can do the same. Having a unique value proposition (which I'd argue is System76's case) can do the same. There's more than one kind of market success and more than one path to market success.

fermienrico 8y ago
I think you have some valid points. There is a lot of crap out there today that doesn't have good ID and it sounds weird to say but doesn't need ID. If you're selling utilitarian objects, for example, construction materials: Nuts & Bolts, Screws, I-Beams, Dry wall, etc. None of that stuff needs any ID - as you said it would be all about whether the object functions or not. Good engineering is what it needs, I agree with you there. Don't you feel that there are a lot of products out there that are not designed well? They're just slapped together, molded shut and ready to mass market? ID would just be a one time NRE cost if they don't use expensive materials. If you get a chance, do catch the "Dieter Rams" documentary by Gary Hustwit. I thought it was amazing and you'd I think enjoy it.
- cbsmith 8y ago
  "Don't you feel that there are a lot of products out there that are not designed well?" I do, but I feel the same way about engineering. Curse of high expectations.