6 ms·
It will be interesting to see if we programmers can capture more of the value of our labor by forming unions. This walkout is exactly the sort of thing that a u
by kough 8y ago
It will be interesting to see if we programmers can capture more of the value of our labor by forming unions. This walkout is exactly the sort of thing that a union would organize. The most salient point of this article (although mentioned quite obliquely) is that: programmers have more power over the companies they work for than they are currently exercising.
- malvosenior 8y agoThe problem with programmers unionizing is that there is an extreme spread of talent in the industry. If you're a 10X coder it doesn't really behoove you to pull up ranks with all of the 1X coders. It's the top end of the scale that is commanding high salaries and they're the ones with the leverage over large companies (since they're very difficult to replace).
- kartan 8y ago> If you're a 10X coder it doesn't really behoove you to pull up ranks with all of the 1X coders. I do not get the point. If someone is a 10x coder should that developer accept sexual harassment?
- stcredzero 8y agoI do not get the point. If someone is a 10x coder should that developer accept sexual harassment? No. However, they might not want to accept lowering their individual negotiating power by averaging it down to the collective's level. Historically, a problem with movements of utopian ideals, is that they tend to be disconnected with reality while their adherents keep doubling down. Eventually, everyone is accused, and most everyone outside of the most fanatical true believers are frightened someone else will find out what it is they really think. Examples of this can be found cutting across different root cultures, different continents, and different eras. Many of the examples are concentrated in the 20th century, however.
- kartan 8y ago> Historically, a problem with movements of utopian ideals, is that they tend to be disconnected with reality while their adherents keep doubling down. Eventually, everyone is accused, and most everyone outside of the most fanatical true believers are frightened someone else will find out what it is they really think. This kind of unions already exists, like for example the Screen Actors Guild‐American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (and actors have way more than 10x difference between them). Bun in your opinion unions - like https://arkiv.sverigesingenjorer.se/About-us/ https://arkiv.sverigesingenjorer.se/About-us/ that work in other countries - will cause disconnection with reality the raise of fanatical believes and utterly chaos. > Examples of this can be found cutting across different root cultures, different continents, and different eras. Many of the examples are concentrated in the 20th century, however. Maybe we mean something different when talking about unions. Can you give me an example so I can see what do you refer to?
- stcredzero 8y agoFor starters, just about every regime that billed itself as communist.
- rasz 8y ago10x contributors at Google dond accept sexual harassment, they are the ones dishing it out with impunity
- untog 8y agoAre programmers really that unique in that sense? Any profession has people that are considerably more talented than others. (I'm also not at all convinced by the 10x developer myth. There are lots of developers more talented than others... they are senior developers, or whatever role exists beyond that in your company)
- kareemsabri 8y agoNot sure typical union professions do.
- untog 8y agoWhat about actors? They're incredibly unionised, and incredibly split in earning potential.
- kareemsabri 8y agoHmm, that's true. I forgot about actors.
- berbec 8y agoAudra McDonald belongs to the same union as the understudy ensemble member. If Equity can manage it, I'm sure we can too.
- stcredzero 8y agoI'm also not at all convinced by the 10x developer myth. I've yet to meet a 10x code writer who was really worth it. Difficulties in dealing on an interpersonal level usually counteracted whatever advantage they could bring to a team. Much more valuable are the 10x managers. In truth, they're more like 2x or 3x, but they are quite rare though they are quite real.
- xiphias2 8y agoWhat I have seen more are 0.1x managers. They may be just 10% of the managers, but the problem is that if you have a deep hierarchy, you just need one 0.1x manager in the hierarchy to ruin your project.
- jaggederest 8y agoThere are a lot of unions that involve "superstar" style distributions of labor and equity, and they manage it just fine. For example players unions, the DGA and SAG/AFTRA all have about as extreme a distribution as you could imagine. The key is to set minimums for performance, not maximums. That prevents exploitation without limiting individual performance.