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The principle of the European Union is based on democracy, and you can vote for an European party that would better defend your view at the European level. In m

by antpls 8y ago

The principle of the European Union is based on democracy, and you can vote for an European party that would better defend your view at the European level. In my opinion, a country leaving the EU is equivalent of saying that democracy doesn't work and this message is dangerous. For information, less than 50% of Europeans voted at the last European elections in 2014 [1], it only depends on people to build a democratic Europe. If you disagree with your own country's laws or current government, you are not allowed to say "alright, my house is not from this country anymore, and I wont pay any taxes". In practice, you will still use all the infrastructure everybody else contributed with their taxes, plus the healthcare, and you will still want to trade with other people. Country's problems won't magically disappear after leaving the European community, the European Union is made to find collaborative solutions between countries, taking into account each countries' interests and capacities. Now, you can legitimately disagree with recent EU laws about online ads for example, but as another European myself, I welcome this regulation. So we are 2 Europeans with different opinions, and the best way to solve this is democracy, if we still want to trade together in 25ish different countries. I agree with you about politician salaries and bureaucracy, but I only see it improving in the future, when information will be better communicated and people more interested in Europeans scale issues. Anyway, we achieve balance by participating and talking, not by closing the doors in front of difficulties. [1] turnouts for EU 2014 election, by countries : http://www.europarl.europa.eu/elections2014-results/en/turnout.html http://www.europarl.europa.eu/elections2014-results/en/turno... Edit : If you disagree with your current country government, maybe you will have more success at the European level, which in turn will balance your country government. Also, European politician salaries are transparent and follow a strict procedure : http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/13/salaries-and-pensions http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/faq/13/salaries-and-pe... so maybe still expensive, but it could be possibly less corrupt than some of the individual countries themselves.

ozim 8y ago
I do not disagree with my own country laws or government I migrated because I was getting better pay in other country. On brexit for me it is more of a statement that politicians are corrupt and you have to make that statement. It is important and sometimes you have to loose some money or comfort to make important statement. Salaries and pensions being transparent is nothing special. It goes about connections, you are with us then you will get that transparent salary. You are against then we will make sure you are not going to have it. If you are in inner special circle you will get participation in special fund for inner circle people which is not transparent. This way that kind of transparency doe not matter. Democracy not working, simple to prove, how many politicians that are in it for 10 or 20 years you know. I see plenty, it is not democracy where someone from street can build up party. There is caste system in place and you can choose only from people who are involved in the system. They protect each other as long as they can because if one loses other will held them back. I understand there always will be 'ruling caste' but problem is they should be not insanely stupid, greedy, and having lives of normal folks as nothing. I have nothing against people being more rich than me, but there are some boundaries.
- antpls 8y ago
  > There is caste system in place and you can choose only from people who are involved in the system. I used to think similarly. In reality, not all politicians are the same, and they don't all come from the same social classes (I guess it depends of your country tho). It's a matter of documenting yourself on some of the parties, and find the one you identify the most to. Politician is an actual job, they provide value by representing a party or ideas for a group of people, and it requires specific set of skills. That's why not everyone can become a politician. They don't have all the same background, some of them could be actually closer to your opinion than you think. You have to find the party that comes close to what you believe is right. For your information, there are some parties which believe a democratic Europe can be built by giving more power to localities, but they are still pro-europeans. The European Union has its own Judiciary, so they can in theory punish any politicians who would illegally exploit the system, or accepts brides, etc. The system can be improved by itself if it maintains high standards, that's the strength of the democracy with separated powers, but people have to go vote to maintain its fairness.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
robotresearcher 8y ago
It’s less complex than that. The purpose of the EU is to deliberately entangle the interests of Europeans to remove the incentive to go to war again. Everything else is gravy.

by antpls 8y ago

ozim 8y ago

I do not disagree with my own country laws or government I migrated because I was getting better pay in other country. On brexit for me it is more of a statement that politicians are corrupt and you have to make that statement. It is important and sometimes you have to loose some money or comfort to make important statement. Salaries and pensions being transparent is nothing special. It goes about connections, you are with us then you will get that transparent salary. You are against then we will make sure you are not going to have it. If you are in inner special circle you will get participation in special fund for inner circle people which is not transparent. This way that kind of transparency doe not matter. Democracy not working, simple to prove, how many politicians that are in it for 10 or 20 years you know. I see plenty, it is not democracy where someone from street can build up party. There is caste system in place and you can choose only from people who are involved in the system. They protect each other as long as they can because if one loses other will held them back. I understand there always will be 'ruling caste' but problem is they should be not insanely stupid, greedy, and having lives of normal folks as nothing. I have nothing against people being more rich than me, but there are some boundaries.

antpls 8y ago
> There is caste system in place and you can choose only from people who are involved in the system. I used to think similarly. In reality, not all politicians are the same, and they don't all come from the same social classes (I guess it depends of your country tho). It's a matter of documenting yourself on some of the parties, and find the one you identify the most to. Politician is an actual job, they provide value by representing a party or ideas for a group of people, and it requires specific set of skills. That's why not everyone can become a politician. They don't have all the same background, some of them could be actually closer to your opinion than you think. You have to find the party that comes close to what you believe is right. For your information, there are some parties which believe a democratic Europe can be built by giving more power to localities, but they are still pro-europeans. The European Union has its own Judiciary, so they can in theory punish any politicians who would illegally exploit the system, or accepts brides, etc. The system can be improved by itself if it maintains high standards, that's the strength of the democracy with separated powers, but people have to go vote to maintain its fairness.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

robotresearcher 8y ago

It’s less complex than that. The purpose of the EU is to deliberately entangle the interests of Europeans to remove the incentive to go to war again. Everything else is gravy.