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I failed to get a single project on upwork despite one year of bidding as a JS, Rails dev etc. I've also watched youtube videos and read endless blogs how to g

I failed to get a single project on upwork despite one year of bidding as a JS, Rails dev etc. I've also watched youtube videos and read endless blogs how to get your first project. So -1 here if you've included me.

adpirz 8y ago
I'm curious, I just signed up myself. How many bids did you put out? What's your experience like?
- diminish 8y ago
  I have tried every possible bid from zero to 10x the average price. I have also prepared custom presentations, documents for my bids. Zero return.
  - woogiewonka 8y ago
    Don't ever present custom presentations or documents without first having some sort of a commitment from the prospect. 1.You are wasting your time 2. You are coming across as desperate By commitment I mean a phone call. The number one mistake I see freelancers make is not schedule a time to talk to the prospect. Calls are amazing because they do a few things: 1. Filter out people who are not serious about their projects (it's either a side project for them and they have not fully dedicated themselves to it, or they are just shopping around for prices) 2. Allow you to sell yourself without trying. This is really easy to do counter to all the advice out there. Just listen. Listen carefully. Sympathize. Be there so they can cry their problems on your shoulder and then offer to relieve that pain by providing an end-to-end solution. I have learned all of this the hard way - presenting free quotes, proposals and all that bs. Only when I stopped doing that and focused more on the networking aspect - talking to the person and understanding their problem - becoming their friend - that I got most projects.
max0563 8y ago
I never had any luck on Upwork either, so I completely dropped it. Those freelancing platforms, imo, are really not great. You won't be able to compete with someone who is willing to do the work for next to nothing. Believe it or not, I have pretty much gotten all of my Freelance work for the last two years from Reddit. A seriously undervalued resource for this kind of thing.
- mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
  Care to describe your Reddit process?
- darreld 8y ago
  I'd love to hear more about how you've found projects on Reddit.
vemv 8y ago
Go for remote jobs, then chances are you will be at least technically a freelancer. Then as you gain experience you'll be able to transition from pseudo-employee to actual freelancer.
woodpanel 8y ago
After reading on HN about some entrepreneurs success with hiring via upwork, I've tried it out myself and posted some ads for devs. I was flooded with applications that were obviously automated. Not all of the applicants were bad, but given the amount of stuff they must send out per day it wouldn't surprise me if in the end, they are just the front for some coding sweatshops.
- woogiewonka 8y ago
  Were they real jobs? Did you end up selecting anyone? If so, what bucket did they fit in - cheap and abundant or quality?
booleandilemma 8y ago
This was my experience as well. I think it’s because I required that my pay be over a few dollars an hour.
woogiewonka 8y ago
The key to Upwork is to position yourself as a premium solutions provider. I know it goes counter to what Upwork stands for - competition and lower costs, but this is what I have done early on and has worked for me. You want to accomplish a few things by positioning yourself on results vs. cost: 1. Filter out shit people who only see you as a cost 2. Not have to compete on price You can do both of these things and get people to come to YOU instead of bidding left and right. Here is how I did it as a UX designer: 1. Position your profile as a SOLUTION provider, not a code monkey. That means showcasing working products with a side of description about the tech stack. 2. Accept some projects at lower cost to get yourself to 100% "top freelancer" status. This process takes time but once you get there you will see people reaching out to you instead of the other way around. 3. Say NO to many projects. I know I know.. you are thinking I should say YES to everything so I can maximize my chances of finding work but in reality you want to say NO to as many projects as you can. There are QUALITY projects out there that hire long term coders and you can get them if you position yourself as a solutions provider. The big benefit of this is that you get ongoing work and not a fly-by-night single page app. 4. Set a high price. Again, this is counter to what everyone does, but you want to attract companies / individuals who filter out by price (ignore the low costs and look for presumed quality - higher cost). As a UX designer I found my ideal rate to be $75/hr - BUT, I do not charge $75/hr - this is just what's on my profile, I actually charge on a weekly basis at ~60/hr. (I don't work a full week 8 hrs a day). There was an excellent comment from a team of developers who position themselves outside of Upwork really well: https://codetree.co/ https://codetree.co/ This is what you want to do, follow their footsteps, both on Upwork and off. Set up your website to communicate a professional image and a solution provider mindset. You are there to deliver a final product, not code. The people that want to pay the lowest price for your work see you as a "he may leave shit unfinished half way through or take forever to get anything done" therefore they want to reduce costs. I know all of this because I started on Upwork and I frequently post jobs to work with developers. I have a few side projects where I outsourced all of the development work having done the UX myself.
- achillesheels 8y ago
  Also, by weeding out price-driven projects, you are weeding out ignoramuses who do not know the value of a good freelancer or the reality of their project’s scope. I kid you not, one of my developers told me a story of a client from Upwork asking him to build a me-too Google search engine...

adpirz 8y ago

I'm curious, I just signed up myself. How many bids did you put out? What's your experience like?

diminish 8y ago
I have tried every possible bid from zero to 10x the average price. I have also prepared custom presentations, documents for my bids. Zero return.
- woogiewonka 8y ago
  Don't ever present custom presentations or documents without first having some sort of a commitment from the prospect. 1.You are wasting your time 2. You are coming across as desperate By commitment I mean a phone call. The number one mistake I see freelancers make is not schedule a time to talk to the prospect. Calls are amazing because they do a few things: 1. Filter out people who are not serious about their projects (it's either a side project for them and they have not fully dedicated themselves to it, or they are just shopping around for prices) 2. Allow you to sell yourself without trying. This is really easy to do counter to all the advice out there. Just listen. Listen carefully. Sympathize. Be there so they can cry their problems on your shoulder and then offer to relieve that pain by providing an end-to-end solution. I have learned all of this the hard way - presenting free quotes, proposals and all that bs. Only when I stopped doing that and focused more on the networking aspect - talking to the person and understanding their problem - becoming their friend - that I got most projects.

max0563 8y ago

I never had any luck on Upwork either, so I completely dropped it. Those freelancing platforms, imo, are really not great. You won't be able to compete with someone who is willing to do the work for next to nothing. Believe it or not, I have pretty much gotten all of my Freelance work for the last two years from Reddit. A seriously undervalued resource for this kind of thing.

mrhappyunhappy 8y ago
Care to describe your Reddit process?
darreld 8y ago
I'd love to hear more about how you've found projects on Reddit.

vemv 8y ago

Go for remote jobs, then chances are you will be at least technically a freelancer. Then as you gain experience you'll be able to transition from pseudo-employee to actual freelancer.

woodpanel 8y ago

After reading on HN about some entrepreneurs success with hiring via upwork, I've tried it out myself and posted some ads for devs. I was flooded with applications that were obviously automated. Not all of the applicants were bad, but given the amount of stuff they must send out per day it wouldn't surprise me if in the end, they are just the front for some coding sweatshops.

woogiewonka 8y ago
Were they real jobs? Did you end up selecting anyone? If so, what bucket did they fit in - cheap and abundant or quality?

booleandilemma 8y ago

This was my experience as well. I think it’s because I required that my pay be over a few dollars an hour.

woogiewonka 8y ago

The key to Upwork is to position yourself as a premium solutions provider. I know it goes counter to what Upwork stands for - competition and lower costs, but this is what I have done early on and has worked for me. You want to accomplish a few things by positioning yourself on results vs. cost: 1. Filter out shit people who only see you as a cost 2. Not have to compete on price You can do both of these things and get people to come to YOU instead of bidding left and right. Here is how I did it as a UX designer: 1. Position your profile as a SOLUTION provider, not a code monkey. That means showcasing working products with a side of description about the tech stack. 2. Accept some projects at lower cost to get yourself to 100% "top freelancer" status. This process takes time but once you get there you will see people reaching out to you instead of the other way around. 3. Say NO to many projects. I know I know.. you are thinking I should say YES to everything so I can maximize my chances of finding work but in reality you want to say NO to as many projects as you can. There are QUALITY projects out there that hire long term coders and you can get them if you position yourself as a solutions provider. The big benefit of this is that you get ongoing work and not a fly-by-night single page app. 4. Set a high price. Again, this is counter to what everyone does, but you want to attract companies / individuals who filter out by price (ignore the low costs and look for presumed quality - higher cost). As a UX designer I found my ideal rate to be $75/hr - BUT, I do not charge $75/hr - this is just what's on my profile, I actually charge on a weekly basis at ~60/hr. (I don't work a full week 8 hrs a day). There was an excellent comment from a team of developers who position themselves outside of Upwork really well: https://codetree.co/ https://codetree.co/ This is what you want to do, follow their footsteps, both on Upwork and off. Set up your website to communicate a professional image and a solution provider mindset. You are there to deliver a final product, not code. The people that want to pay the lowest price for your work see you as a "he may leave shit unfinished half way through or take forever to get anything done" therefore they want to reduce costs. I know all of this because I started on Upwork and I frequently post jobs to work with developers. I have a few side projects where I outsourced all of the development work having done the UX myself.

achillesheels 8y ago
Also, by weeding out price-driven projects, you are weeding out ignoramuses who do not know the value of a good freelancer or the reality of their project’s scope. I kid you not, one of my developers told me a story of a client from Upwork asking him to build a me-too Google search engine...