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I like this part: Apple is milking its essentially captive audience. I hesitate to call it “loyal” — these are, essentially, people who look with trepidation a

I like this part: Apple is milking its essentially captive audience. I hesitate to call it “loyal” — these are, essentially, people who look with trepidation at the idea of moving years of photos and other data to a different system. My wife gnashed her teeth when she got one of the new, wildly overpriced iPhones — but she just can’t imagine switching to Android.

yeswecould 8y ago
The main Android dealbreaker for me is all the viruses, followed by OS fragmentation and finally the fact there is no privacy protection ( i.e. secure enclave )
- jfim 8y ago
  Viruses: doesn't really apply if you just download non shady things from the play store OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Privacy protection: really depends how you feel about Google on this one Presence of a secure element: this one really depends on your threat profile
  - Cyph0n 8y ago
    > Viruses: doesn't really apply if you just download non shady things from the play store Easier said than done, especially when looking for more obscure apps. Also, it's not easy for non-technical folks to tell the difference... > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime How long is "reasonable" relative to iOS? I recently moved from Android to iOS mainly because of this. > Privacy protection: really depends how you feel about Google on this one I'm not sure feelings are relevant here. The truth is simply the truth. > Presence of a secure element: this one really depends on your threat profile Agreed, but it's good to have the extra security guarantees.
    - lazaroclapp 8y ago
      > How long is "reasonable" relative to iOS? I recently moved from Android to iOS mainly because of this. 4 years, basically. Nexus 6 was supported for all security updates from launch in November 2014 to this month (November 2018). In terms of feature updates, it got up to Android 7.1.1, and I am not aware of any major app that wouldn't run on that today. Not exactly great, but certainly not a new phone per year. I believe Apple's policy is 5 years, rather than 4, with a reported risk of iOS updates purposefully making the original hardware performance worse (e.g. battery life). Strictly as a geeky side note, if you have the time to spend DIYing your primary mobile OS (which, admittedly, very few people would prefer doing), there are pretty cool third-party Android distros and other OSes that will keep a Nexus 4 (2012, 6 years old) alive and well. Possibly a Galaxy Nexus (2011, 7 years old) too, but I am less sure about that... Edit: To clarify, what I am saying is that, for most users, iOS' long term support is better than Android's. But, for Google phones and the like, it is only slightly better, not day-and-night better.
  - jdauriemma 8y ago
    Some users buy a new phone every year; for those users I would agree that OS fragmentation is a trivial issue. But if you keep your phone longer, it becomes more important. Many OEMs don't keep their promises to push OTA upgrades in a timely way. Many more OEMs don't make any promises at all. A lack of updates can leave users vulnerable to widely-known attack vectors.
  - ar0 8y ago
    > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Can you make a recommendation here? I am an iPhone user who might be inclined to switch to Android, but I still haven't found a phone that would satisfy this criterion. To clarify: "reasonable" for me means ~5 years, as this is how long I expect to keep using the same phone.
    - jakamau 8y ago
      What generation of iPhone are you currently using? I have and enjoy the Pixel 2 and plan on keeping it for at least another two years. The Pixel 3 (non-xl) would be an ideal phone if you are moving from iPhone and are looking for a long term, well-supported phone.
    - MAGZine 8y ago
      iPhones already don't get full updates. They get progressively trimmed updates as time goes on. Stock android does a similar thing. If you get a Pixel, you get 2 years of OS updates (my Pixel from 2016 is running the latest Android), at least 3 years of security updates, and many software updates in the meantime (most of Android's functionality can be upgraded without an OS update). FWIW, phones aren't designed to last 5 years. The batteries aren't, the screens aren't, the casing isn't, and the hardware generally doesn't (newer software = more demanding). That said, if you do require to use the same device for five years, and need the latest software on it, than Apple is probably your only option.
      - colinjoy 8y ago
        > FWIW, phones aren't designed to last 5 years. The batteries aren't, the screens aren't, the casing isn't, and the hardware generally doesn't (newer software = more demanding). FWIW I’m typing this on a 4 year old iPhone and I expect it to easily last another year. Battery was replaced once. Modern smart phones are complex, expensive, ressource intensive assemblies. Swapping them out every 2 years is crazy (... and yet common, sadly)
  - pkaye 8y ago
    With Google being forced to open up then platform, I expect the viruses and OS fragmentation to get worse as various manufacturers put out half baked software which they don't properly design with security in mind. While even Google has their problems but they do have a seriously strong security team.
  - JustSomeNobody 8y ago
    > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Define reasonable. In order to get Android updates for any amount of time, you mostly have to pick higher end phones. Well, If I am expected to pay laptop prices for a phone, I should be able to keep it for as long as I keep a laptop. Two years of updates isn't cutting it anymore.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime So which Android phone could I have bought in 2013 that would still be getting updates like the iPhone 5s?
- jsight 8y ago
  There really aren't significant virus concerns on Android. This concern has been overblown. I'm not sure what you mean by OS fragmentation. Different vendors offer their own branches so maybe you will find that you like one vs the other? Some people prefer Samsung's Android, others prefer the stock experience. Its really just a matter of personal preference for most people. Privacy can definitely be a problem, though. It is getting a little bit better, but the pace of improvement is not great.
- tensor 8y ago
  The main iOS dealbreaker for me is the lack of strong AI offering. Google's ecosystem is just so good on that front. Siri is not competitive with the google assistant. I don't have update issues as I only buy Nexus/Pixel. I've yet to encounter a single piece of malware in the years I've been using android, so this seems like an overblown issue. Mind you, I don't download that many apps, just use some of the more mainstream ones. I believe Google protects my privacy just fine, but I do admire the extra security that iOS has built into the OS. Wish android did better here.
sigzero 8y ago
I hear you. I decided this last summer to move out of "Apple Land" to Android. Didn't know much about it but I just didn't want the walled garden anymore. I have moved everything over. Got the Pixel because I wanted "stock" and "updates" and the camera. Haven't had any issues. Next step is moving my wife over as well. It's been a pretty good experience.
- brobdingnagians 8y ago
  My first smart phone was an iPhone, because it was the cool thing to do and nicely integrated everything, but I wanted to dip into app programming and couldn't justify $99/year for experimentation, so when my iPhone died, I just swapped to Android. If it had been more open and at least let me easily program for my own phone at the time, I probably never would have switched.
  - distances 8y ago
    Same for me -- I wouldn't mind developing for iPhones, but I have no intention to fully switch to the Apple ecosystem. It's a no go as long as I can't use my Linux desktop for this.
ummonk 8y ago
Weird. I recently moved from Android to iOS, for privacy reasons as well as wanting a phone that would be supported with software updates for a long time. I've really really enjoyed the switch. Admittedly, it helped that I got the iPhone SE which hadn't been discontinued yet; I might have been less happy with the newer X-series phones, particularly given the sticker price.
- jandrese 8y ago
  The thing that kills me isn't the photos/songs, those are trivial to transfer. It's finding suitable replacements for all of my apps. Heck, I'm still on iOS 10 because I havn't found 64 bit versions of some of my most used apps.
- yodsanklai 8y ago
  > I've really really enjoyed the switch. How so? I've been a mac user for many years but can't really justify the price of an iphone. I've been considering making the switch though, for better integration, privacy and smaller phone. Not sure it's worth it.
  - ummonk 8y ago
    Basically just a more intuitive and polished overall user interface. There was definitely some learning time, but once I'd learned some of the common actions, I found it much simpler to work with. But it's probably something that is subjective, so I can't vouch that everyone will feel the same way (indeed, I have some friends who have switched from iOS to Android and found the latter more intuitive). Of course, the price issue was a little different for me since I prefer not to replace devices often, so the longer software support actually means if I amortize the cost of the phone over the time that I use it, iPhones actually come out ahead of Android phones on price.
  - theshrike79 8y ago
    There's no rule that you need to buy the latest iPhone model with top specs. A two-year-old iPhone still gets about 3 years of updates - more than most flagship Androids.
Theodores 8y ago
I wonder if Apple have a demographics problem looming. The teeth-gnashing wife probably has had iPhones since the beginning and her reasons for not wanting to switch are understandable enough. She can also look after her phone and not need so many replacement devices. But the kids who didn't get on the Apple bandwagon when iTunes was a groundbreaking exciting thing with an Apple ecosystem that made it all work wonderfully? I suspect that the kids who expect parents to pay for everything might be burdened with commodity Android devices that cost a lot less than the deluxe Apple phones. Lose the phone too often and it becomes a distinctly mid to low end commodity Android device. If that happens then they get to be outside the Android ecosystem and grow up not needing Apple. Meanwhile, the parents just don't replace their phones often enough as what they have is good enough. Apple can't produce a low-end device as this would cannibalise their premium sales so they are stuck in the realm of hardware and need to push this services model on their customer base. As time goes on an a phone is just a commodity 'hand rectangle' with little class value. Having the latest and greatest doesn't make you one of the cool kids any more than having a fancy laptop makes you special. There are no queues outside the stores on launch day anymore and there is no returning to that. A further problem that Apple have is the amount of markets affected by currencies that have gone south or are protected by tariffs. This affects their competitors too, slowing down the upgrade cycle. The UK is a significant market for Apple and after the Brexit vote the pound lost 20% of value making the latest and greatest iphone cost a pretty penny. Unless you are rich enough for these things to not matter then you do have to ask what you are getting for paying five times as much for a fancy iPhone rather than a similarly sized screen on an Android budget device, particularly when signal strength/battery is a huge part of what the product is.

yeswecould 8y ago

The main Android dealbreaker for me is all the viruses, followed by OS fragmentation and finally the fact there is no privacy protection ( i.e. secure enclave )

jfim 8y ago
Viruses: doesn't really apply if you just download non shady things from the play store OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Privacy protection: really depends how you feel about Google on this one Presence of a secure element: this one really depends on your threat profile
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  > Viruses: doesn't really apply if you just download non shady things from the play store Easier said than done, especially when looking for more obscure apps. Also, it's not easy for non-technical folks to tell the difference... > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime How long is "reasonable" relative to iOS? I recently moved from Android to iOS mainly because of this. > Privacy protection: really depends how you feel about Google on this one I'm not sure feelings are relevant here. The truth is simply the truth. > Presence of a secure element: this one really depends on your threat profile Agreed, but it's good to have the extra security guarantees.
  - lazaroclapp 8y ago
    > How long is "reasonable" relative to iOS? I recently moved from Android to iOS mainly because of this. 4 years, basically. Nexus 6 was supported for all security updates from launch in November 2014 to this month (November 2018). In terms of feature updates, it got up to Android 7.1.1, and I am not aware of any major app that wouldn't run on that today. Not exactly great, but certainly not a new phone per year. I believe Apple's policy is 5 years, rather than 4, with a reported risk of iOS updates purposefully making the original hardware performance worse (e.g. battery life). Strictly as a geeky side note, if you have the time to spend DIYing your primary mobile OS (which, admittedly, very few people would prefer doing), there are pretty cool third-party Android distros and other OSes that will keep a Nexus 4 (2012, 6 years old) alive and well. Possibly a Galaxy Nexus (2011, 7 years old) too, but I am less sure about that... Edit: To clarify, what I am saying is that, for most users, iOS' long term support is better than Android's. But, for Google phones and the like, it is only slightly better, not day-and-night better.
- jdauriemma 8y ago
  Some users buy a new phone every year; for those users I would agree that OS fragmentation is a trivial issue. But if you keep your phone longer, it becomes more important. Many OEMs don't keep their promises to push OTA upgrades in a timely way. Many more OEMs don't make any promises at all. A lack of updates can leave users vulnerable to widely-known attack vectors.
- ar0 8y ago
  > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Can you make a recommendation here? I am an iPhone user who might be inclined to switch to Android, but I still haven't found a phone that would satisfy this criterion. To clarify: "reasonable" for me means ~5 years, as this is how long I expect to keep using the same phone.
  - jakamau 8y ago
    What generation of iPhone are you currently using? I have and enjoy the Pixel 2 and plan on keeping it for at least another two years. The Pixel 3 (non-xl) would be an ideal phone if you are moving from iPhone and are looking for a long term, well-supported phone.
  - MAGZine 8y ago
    iPhones already don't get full updates. They get progressively trimmed updates as time goes on. Stock android does a similar thing. If you get a Pixel, you get 2 years of OS updates (my Pixel from 2016 is running the latest Android), at least 3 years of security updates, and many software updates in the meantime (most of Android's functionality can be upgraded without an OS update). FWIW, phones aren't designed to last 5 years. The batteries aren't, the screens aren't, the casing isn't, and the hardware generally doesn't (newer software = more demanding). That said, if you do require to use the same device for five years, and need the latest software on it, than Apple is probably your only option.
    - colinjoy 8y ago
      > FWIW, phones aren't designed to last 5 years. The batteries aren't, the screens aren't, the casing isn't, and the hardware generally doesn't (newer software = more demanding). FWIW I’m typing this on a 4 year old iPhone and I expect it to easily last another year. Battery was replaced once. Modern smart phones are complex, expensive, ressource intensive assemblies. Swapping them out every 2 years is crazy (... and yet common, sadly)
- pkaye 8y ago
  With Google being forced to open up then platform, I expect the viruses and OS fragmentation to get worse as various manufacturers put out half baked software which they don't properly design with security in mind. While even Google has their problems but they do have a seriously strong security team.
- JustSomeNobody 8y ago
  > OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime Define reasonable. In order to get Android updates for any amount of time, you mostly have to pick higher end phones. Well, If I am expected to pay laptop prices for a phone, I should be able to keep it for as long as I keep a laptop. Two years of updates isn't cutting it anymore.
- scarface74 8y ago
  OS fragmentation: doesn't apply if you're not a developer, just pick a phone that will have a reasonable amount of updates over its lifetime So which Android phone could I have bought in 2013 that would still be getting updates like the iPhone 5s?
jsight 8y ago
There really aren't significant virus concerns on Android. This concern has been overblown. I'm not sure what you mean by OS fragmentation. Different vendors offer their own branches so maybe you will find that you like one vs the other? Some people prefer Samsung's Android, others prefer the stock experience. Its really just a matter of personal preference for most people. Privacy can definitely be a problem, though. It is getting a little bit better, but the pace of improvement is not great.
tensor 8y ago
The main iOS dealbreaker for me is the lack of strong AI offering. Google's ecosystem is just so good on that front. Siri is not competitive with the google assistant. I don't have update issues as I only buy Nexus/Pixel. I've yet to encounter a single piece of malware in the years I've been using android, so this seems like an overblown issue. Mind you, I don't download that many apps, just use some of the more mainstream ones. I believe Google protects my privacy just fine, but I do admire the extra security that iOS has built into the OS. Wish android did better here.

sigzero 8y ago

I hear you. I decided this last summer to move out of "Apple Land" to Android. Didn't know much about it but I just didn't want the walled garden anymore. I have moved everything over. Got the Pixel because I wanted "stock" and "updates" and the camera. Haven't had any issues. Next step is moving my wife over as well. It's been a pretty good experience.

brobdingnagians 8y ago
My first smart phone was an iPhone, because it was the cool thing to do and nicely integrated everything, but I wanted to dip into app programming and couldn't justify $99/year for experimentation, so when my iPhone died, I just swapped to Android. If it had been more open and at least let me easily program for my own phone at the time, I probably never would have switched.
- distances 8y ago
  Same for me -- I wouldn't mind developing for iPhones, but I have no intention to fully switch to the Apple ecosystem. It's a no go as long as I can't use my Linux desktop for this.

ummonk 8y ago

Weird. I recently moved from Android to iOS, for privacy reasons as well as wanting a phone that would be supported with software updates for a long time. I've really really enjoyed the switch. Admittedly, it helped that I got the iPhone SE which hadn't been discontinued yet; I might have been less happy with the newer X-series phones, particularly given the sticker price.

jandrese 8y ago
The thing that kills me isn't the photos/songs, those are trivial to transfer. It's finding suitable replacements for all of my apps. Heck, I'm still on iOS 10 because I havn't found 64 bit versions of some of my most used apps.
yodsanklai 8y ago
> I've really really enjoyed the switch. How so? I've been a mac user for many years but can't really justify the price of an iphone. I've been considering making the switch though, for better integration, privacy and smaller phone. Not sure it's worth it.
- ummonk 8y ago
  Basically just a more intuitive and polished overall user interface. There was definitely some learning time, but once I'd learned some of the common actions, I found it much simpler to work with. But it's probably something that is subjective, so I can't vouch that everyone will feel the same way (indeed, I have some friends who have switched from iOS to Android and found the latter more intuitive). Of course, the price issue was a little different for me since I prefer not to replace devices often, so the longer software support actually means if I amortize the cost of the phone over the time that I use it, iPhones actually come out ahead of Android phones on price.
- theshrike79 8y ago
  There's no rule that you need to buy the latest iPhone model with top specs. A two-year-old iPhone still gets about 3 years of updates - more than most flagship Androids.

Theodores 8y ago

I wonder if Apple have a demographics problem looming. The teeth-gnashing wife probably has had iPhones since the beginning and her reasons for not wanting to switch are understandable enough. She can also look after her phone and not need so many replacement devices. But the kids who didn't get on the Apple bandwagon when iTunes was a groundbreaking exciting thing with an Apple ecosystem that made it all work wonderfully? I suspect that the kids who expect parents to pay for everything might be burdened with commodity Android devices that cost a lot less than the deluxe Apple phones. Lose the phone too often and it becomes a distinctly mid to low end commodity Android device. If that happens then they get to be outside the Android ecosystem and grow up not needing Apple. Meanwhile, the parents just don't replace their phones often enough as what they have is good enough. Apple can't produce a low-end device as this would cannibalise their premium sales so they are stuck in the realm of hardware and need to push this services model on their customer base. As time goes on an a phone is just a commodity 'hand rectangle' with little class value. Having the latest and greatest doesn't make you one of the cool kids any more than having a fancy laptop makes you special. There are no queues outside the stores on launch day anymore and there is no returning to that. A further problem that Apple have is the amount of markets affected by currencies that have gone south or are protected by tariffs. This affects their competitors too, slowing down the upgrade cycle. The UK is a significant market for Apple and after the Brexit vote the pound lost 20% of value making the latest and greatest iphone cost a pretty penny. Unless you are rich enough for these things to not matter then you do have to ask what you are getting for paying five times as much for a fancy iPhone rather than a similarly sized screen on an Android budget device, particularly when signal strength/battery is a huge part of what the product is.